4690  Headache

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:08:31 -0300
From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Headache
To: tango-l@mit.edu

I have been trying to read all these threads on how to step, how to
turn, how to dance beautifully, blah, blah, blah. All I can say is that
if this had been 7 years ago when I was first learning to dance I would
have had a major headache trying to figure out what you guys are talking
about. Are you guys printing this stuff out and trying to do it? I
realize that many of you do not live in places where there are an
abundance of instructors. However, tango in my opinion cannot be
learned like a computer program dissected down to its lowest common
denominator.

In my (our classes) we do not allow note taking. The student may film
the lesson, but not take notes. They need to concentrate on their body,
their partner's body, the music, the teachers - not a pad of paper.
Note taking is for science class not for dance class. I don't care if
you are dancing tango, salsa, or swing. You need to concentrate on the
movements. If you are busy taking notes you are not concentrating on
the movements, OR, they are not natural movements, OR they are too
complicated and you should not be learning them.

Someone said only women take notes. You know, that could be true for
that person. But I can only remember guys taking notes. Must be a
gender thing.

Next off, generally speaking most musicians cannot and do not dance.
But do not dismiss all of them. My new partner Fernando Diaz teaches
and plays guitar. The women on this list who have been to BsAs and have
taken lessons with him will attest to the contrary. Not only is he an
excellent teacher he is a very good dancer.

Yes the floors here are crowded. That is why I go to dance at 2:00 am.
Tango fantasia was never danced here in the milongas except by bumbling
foreigners who do not know better. Some of your favorite name brands
dance plain old salon style when they are in the milongas and save the
fantasia for the stage where it belongs. (Here it is called tango
ballet) Most Argentines whether they dance or not do not consider stage
tango or any other tango other than salon, milonguero, etc. to be "their
tango." You can say or think what you want, but the average Argentine
whether they dance or not is very passionate about tango being theirs.
Even when they hate it. At least to me it is wonderful to see people so
passionate about something.

Today a remis driver brought a young Italian man to a private lesson
with Fernando and I. He is a nuevo tango dancer. Surprise! Surprise!
He has come to Buenos Aires to learn traditional tango. He said he
could take classes in Rome, but he decided that if he came here he would
have access to lots of good teachers rather than just a few. His
comments after today's lesson? "This is really hard, much more than
nuevo." He is bound and determined to learn traditional tango and kept
cursing himself for allowing his nuevo moves to invade his lesson. He
says that more young people in Italy want to learn traditional tango.
They want to come here.

I do not know why some people get so upset because people look to Buenos
Aires as the mecca of tango. Do you get that upset over people who go
to Scotland to learn to play bagpipes? Or clogging? Or go to Cuba to
learn salsa or play the congas? I can never remember anyone in the
salsa community getting so blown out because people loved to go to Cuba
to dance salsa for all the same reasons people like to come here for tango.

Yeech! I would never go to La Viruta...except to eat dinner on Friday
nights.

Piazolla is for listening. That is the general consensus here in Buenos
Aires. But hey, they dance East Coast Swing (Excuse me Rock and Roll)
to Creedence Clearwater, so what do they know.

Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:50:34 -1200
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Headache
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net

Deby Novitz wrote:

>
> In my (our classes) we do not allow note taking. They >

need to concentrate on their body, their partner's body, the
music, the teachers - not a pad of paper. Note taking is for
science class not for dance class. You need to concentrate
on the movements. If you are busy taking notes you are not
concentrating on the movements, OR, they are not natural
movements, OR they are too complicated and you should not be
learning them.
Well, when I go to BA, I'll know which classes NOT to take!!
Everybody learns DIFFERENTLY. Even though I concentrate on
my body, my partner's body, my teacher; I still make
mistakes because while I over concentrate on something, I
neglect something else. Once I become aware of a frame
problem, then I can execute the figure. My notes aren't just
step here, step there, they are lead the woman in X, etc. My
teacher gives me comments and I write them down so I'll
remember.

I've taken workshops where I forgot 20% 15 minutes after the
class, 50% after one hour and after that, I wonder what
exactly did I learn. Note taking forces me to think about
what I'm learning.

I attended a workshop where Daniel Trenner didn't allow
filming because filming is a spectator sport. Note taking is
permitted.

My notes get shorter the better I get. I guess after I know
all there is to know, I won't need any notes nor take any
classes.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Looking forward to the day I won't need notes

I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:17:24 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Headache
To: tango-l@mit.edu
format="flowed"

Deby.

I have been surprised to find the milongas much less crowded this year
than in years past. Porteno y Bailarin, Gricel, El Beso, La National
floors were quite navigable these last weeks. Only Salon Canning
(which I dislike), and Nino Bien have been packed. Is it the end of
month phenomenon?

Lois Donnay
Minneapolis

Quoting Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>:

>
> Yes the floors here are crowded. That is why I go to dance at 2:00 am.
> Tango fantasia was never danced here in the milongas except by bumbling
> foreigners who do not know better. Some of your favorite name brands
> dance plain old salon style when they are in the milongas and save the
> fantasia for the stage where it belongs. (Here it is called tango
> ballet) Most Argentines whether they dance or not do not consider stage
> tango or any other tango other than salon, milonguero, etc. to be "their
> tango." You can say or think what you want, but the average Argentine
> whether they dance or not is very passionate about tango being theirs.
> Even when they hate it. At least to me it is wonderful to see people so
> passionate about something.

Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:19:01 -0800 (PST)
From: NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Headache
To: Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net>
Cc: tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>

Lois,

I was there in June and not only were the milongas
less crowded, but my 'regular' guys were going only
once or twice a week rather than 5-6 days a week ( to
the afternoon milongas). Also, Miguel Angel, a
milonguero, told me I would be 'disappointed in the
level of dancing' compared to a few years ago. He was
right. My speculation is that after closing the
milongas for a year, folks got out of the habit or the
wives got onto the men who were whiling away their
hours in the milongas before coming home for dinner.
Several of the men who are wonderful dancers now also
believe they should be paid for the privilege of
dancing with them and have 'arrangements' with the
organizers and the women who opt for that service (
including MANY portenas!).

I have said it before - I frequently get as many
very good tandas with wonderful leaders in the US in
one night as I do in several nights in BsAs. The
portenas are also complaining and are much more
willing to dance with visiting men than they were in
the past.

Nancy

Whatever the reasons,
--- Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net> wrote:

> Deby.
>
> I have been surprised to find the milongas much less
> crowded this year
> than in years past. Porteno y Bailarin, Gricel, El
> Beso, La National
> floors were quite navigable these last weeks. Only
> Salon Canning
> (which I dislike), and Nino Bien have been packed.
> Is it the end of
> month phenomenon?
>
> Lois Donnay
> Minneapolis
>
> Quoting Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>:
>
>
> >
> > Yes the floors here are crowded. That is why I go
> to dance at 2:00 am.
> > Tango fantasia was never danced here in the
> milongas except by bumbling
> > foreigners who do not know better. Some of your
> favorite name brands
> > dance plain old salon style when they are in the
> milongas and save the
> > fantasia for the stage where it belongs. (Here it
> is called tango
> > ballet) Most Argentines whether they dance or not
> do not consider stage
> > tango or any other tango other than salon,
> milonguero, etc. to be "their
> > tango." You can say or think what you want, but
> the average Argentine
> > whether they dance or not is very passionate about
> tango being theirs.
> > Even when they hate it. At least to me it is
> wonderful to see people so
> > passionate about something.
>
>
>
>
>

<<Rito es la danza en tu vida
y el tango que tu amas
te quema en su llama>>
de: Bailarina de tango
por: Horacio Sanguinetti