5023 heel or toe - Eryk
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:08:26 +0200
From: Andreas Wichter <andreas@tangokombinat.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] heel or toe - Eryk
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hello Eryk,
you said:
How you arrive? That's an embellishment... That's for
the public... for your ego... it's show ...
the least important thing when you dance with someone.
Don?t take this personally, please, but I find that entirely wrong. As
Janis said earlier, it is all about feeling, and a big part of the
feeling in tango is generated by how we place our feet on the floor. It
makes a statement, actually, about our relationship with the floor.
Arriving in the new place, when you finish the step, you greet the
floor. It?s like a caress, or a handshake. And it does matter how you
caress someone, or shake his or her hand. So the way you place your
foot affects the way your weight arrives on your foot.
Check out this video, if you like (it?s Pablo & Noelia), and watch him
placing his weight on his left foot at 1:48 min. That is a big part of
his dance. Most people can hardly see that, but he can feel it, and I
bet she can, too. Villa Urquiza is pretty big about walking softly,
anyway, and arriving is the main part of that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SizbMqQKfuw
Arriving well, placing your foot (and hers) with care and enjoying the
process of settling your weight can make the woman sigh in your ear.
Which makes it worth the effort.
Regards,
Andreas
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:15 +0100 (BST)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] heel or toe - Eryk
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
> Don?t take this personally, please, but I find that entirely wrong.
> ... a big part of the feeling in tango is generated by how we place our
> feet on the floor.
Don't take this personally, please Andreas, but I find that entirely wrong.
The feeling is not generated by the placement of feet. The feeling
generATES the placement of feet.
Let's not be mislead by a tradition of show-based instruction that
mistakes visible effect for cause - the true cause is invisible feeling.
> placing your foot (and hers) with care ...
> can make the woman sigh in your ear.
The placement does not make the sigh. The care makes the sigh... and the
placement.
--
Chris
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:53:14 +0200
From: Alexis Cousein <al@sgi.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] heel or toe - Eryk
To: tl2@chrisjj.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Chris, UK wrote:
> The placement does not make the sigh. The care makes the sigh... and the
> placement.
Exactly. Instead of worrying about the connection to the floor, I know
a lot of leaders who should be worrying about the connection with
their partner (and with the music).
If your follower doesn't think you connect properly, then do
something about that. If you lead properly (and thus listen
to your partner after the invitation, move together
for the entire duration of the step, and also negotiate
the end of a step), there's no way to land improperly
if you listen carefully and communicate continuously.
Your instinct will guide you, because...
...let's face it: we've been connecting with floors for most of
our life, one way or another, and most of us can do it in umpteen
different ways depending on what we want to achieve (stomping
when impersonating the formidable T-rex, or trying to get past
the parent's bedroom without making the wooden floor creak).
The same can't be said about connecting to a partner in an embrace, and
that's why many more people have *real* problems with that.
So if your partner tells you she feels as if she's on the other end of a
bungee cord, listen to her and try to make the movement of
your upper body (which is what connects you to the follower) fluid, and
trust your instinct for the rest. The rest will (pun intended) follow,
and that includes what your feet are going to do. You muscle memory
knows what to do with them.
There's something about discussions about these minutiae
that makes me think there's a bit too much navel staring at times,
and to much worrying about how *we* look rather than how we can
dance in symbiosis with a partner and the music.
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:11:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Eryk Wolski <darnockyre@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] heel or toe - Eryk
To: Andreas Wichter <andreas@tangokombinat.de>, tango-l@mit.edu
Holla,
I did not said that embellishments ar not important.
I just claim that what the base of your free leg does
is an embellishment.
The TOE OR HEAL FIRST in the projection of the free
leg is an embellishment!
With your free leg you are doing embellishments. I
start a step with a projection. And I can choose to
project toe or heal first. The projected leg can go
for the contact with the floor, but I also can
withdraw the projection. If I want to look elegant i
probably will try to emulate Pablos Footwork. But note
he dances Di Sarli and the Villa Urquiza style goes
fine with it! Dance Pugliese the same way and you will
look a bit out of place!
Meanwhile, your weight rests on the other leg (not the
free one) and if you want to have stability you have
to rest on you HEEL and you are using the toes to
balance. Try standing on your toes and doing an lapis!
Good luck!
Fantastic video! I had actually the pleasure to take
several class by Pablo Rodriguez this spring in the
UK. Wonderful dancer. Thanks for posting this video
here. If you look closely you will see that Pablo
varies if he places his heels or his toes of the FREE
LEG on the floor first. While going forward he first
contacts the floor with the heel, while going
backwards usually with the toes.
And thanks to all for this very interesting discussion
about how to walk in the tango!
Cheers
Eryk
--- Andreas Wichter <andreas@tangokombinat.de> wrote:
> Hello Eryk,
>
> you said:
>
> How you arrive? That's an embellishment... That's
> for
> the public... for your ego... it's show ...
> the least important thing when you dance with
> someone.
>
> Don?t take this personally, please, but I find that
> entirely wrong. As
> Janis said earlier, it is all about feeling, and a
> big part of the
> feeling in tango is generated by how we place our
> feet on the floor. It
> makes a statement, actually, about our relationship
> with the floor.
> Arriving in the new place, when you finish the step,
> you greet the
> floor. It?s like a caress, or a handshake. And it
> does matter how you
> caress someone, or shake his or her hand. So the way
> you place your
> foot affects the way your weight arrives on your
> foot.
> Check out this video, if you like (it?s Pablo &
> Noelia), and watch him
> placing his weight on his left foot at 1:48 min.
> That is a big part of
> his dance. Most people can hardly see that, but he
> can feel it, and I
> bet she can, too. Villa Urquiza is pretty big about
> walking softly,
> anyway, and arriving is the main part of that.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SizbMqQKfuw
> Arriving well, placing your foot (and hers) with
> care and enjoying the
> process of settling your weight can make the woman
> sigh in your ear.
> Which makes it worth the effort.
>
> Regards,
> Andreas
>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:50:49 +0200
From: Andreas Wichter <andreas@tangokombinat.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] heel or toe - Eryk
To: tango-l@mit.edu, Eryk Wolski <darnockyre@yahoo.co.uk>
Hello Eryk,
Am 13.07.2007 um 11:11 schrieb Eryk Wolski:
> I did not said that embellishments ar not important.
> I just claim that what the base of your free leg does
> is an embellishment.
I am reluctant to further argue the point, but it is part of the step,
isn?t it? The way you move your leg is part of the way you step. What I
was mainly talking about is the moment of connecting and the subsequent
process of letting the weight settle on the foot.
What you said sounded to me a bit like it doesn?t matter what the
leg/foot does. I think it does. The Aesthestics of the movement
generate a feeling - it feels different to me if I move my leg in
different ways. I don?t want to argue hen and eggs things, and cause
and effect are not always clear here.
> The TOE OR HEAL FIRST in the projection of the free
> leg is an embellishment!
Then your definition of embellishment differs from mine a bit. I?d
refer to the post of Tom about heel or toe, as he said all that needs
to be said. Toe or heel first have, or can have, technical effects (and
causes).
> With your free leg you are doing embellishments. I
> start a step with a projection. And I can choose to
> project toe or heal first.
True. But it does have an effect on the subsequent movement, so for me
it is an integral part of the chosen step.
> The projected leg can go
> for the contact with the floor, but I also can
> withdraw the projection. If I want to look elegant i
> probably will try to emulate Pablos Footwork.
I think you have workshops vids on your channel of Osvaldo Zotto. He?s
one of the most elegant dancers ever, but he does it with quite a
different way of walking. Hard to choose who to emulate...
> But note
> he dances Di Sarli and the Villa Urquiza style goes
> fine with it! Dance Pugliese the same way and you will
> look a bit out of place!
I agree 100% that you shouldn?t dance the same way to different music.
I?d like to see Pablo and Noelia dance Pugliese. I think there?s
nothing on youtube yet.
>
>
> Meanwhile, your weight rests on the other leg (not the
> free one) and if you want to have stability you have
> to rest on you HEEL and you are using the toes to
> balance. Try standing on your toes and doing an lapis!
> Good luck!
You?re not putting more weight on the heel than on the ball of the
foot, are you? If you mean using the heel as a stabilizer (how much
actual weight can differ according to the situation), that?s fine with
me.
>
> Fantastic video! I had actually the pleasure to take
> several class by Pablo Rodriguez this spring in the
> UK.
Yup, I saw the vid on your channel. I like him. Very impressive how one
so young can dance in such a "mature" fashion.
>
> And thanks to all for this very interesting discussion
> about how to walk in the tango!
I hope I wasn?t coming across as overly direct, but as you seem to live
in Germany you probably don?t need to many "IMHO" s and such. ;-)
The thing with discussions like this is that it?s quite difficult to be
entirely clear about complex things like movement without resorting to
the occasional demonstration. I usually try to stay out of it and just
do my stuff.
Cheers,
Andreas
