4827  Heels first vs. toes first

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:56:51 +0000
From: "Sergio Vandekier" <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Heels first vs. toes first
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Tom says: " Focussing on details of foot placement, specifically telling a
beginner to land toe first, is a huge distraction from more important
things, like standing upright, walking boldly forward, walking in a
straight line, leading the follower, learning tango steps."

What follows is an attempt to share my experience. It is not an attempt to
change the way you dance or the form you teach. It does not imply either
that I am the owner of the truth and you are wrong.

This brings to mind several elements : Instructors of tango develop a
certain sequence that follow in their teaching process.

When during this process should we introduce instruction in proper tango
walk.

I have discussed this subject with many well known tango instructors. Nito
Garcia, Osvaldo Zotto, Carlos Copello, Lampazo, (and many others Mingo and
Pablo Pugliese). I used to spend lots of time with them, as personal friend
and also because frequently I was the translator in the USA and in Buenos
Aires for their lessons. I also learned to dance from them. Most of them in
turn learned to dance from social dancers not from stage performers. Due to
their excellent training some of them ended up doing stage dancing and
teaching.

Tango walk is not a secondary matter, probably it is the most important part
of the dance. One can dance Argentine Tango, just walking. There are many
ways to walk. Heel first could be one of them if done properly.

My experience of all my life and over 20 years of dancing tango regularly is
that most Argentine instructors teach TOES FIRST. Most milongueros step
toes first. This gives a particular look and feeling to their dance.

LAMPAZO, always taught ONLY THE TANGO WALK FOR A WHOLE WEEK , to beginners
before he taught anything else, I myself used to go to Club Sin Rumbo and
walk for one hour every day.

OSVALDO ZOTTO used to tell me that he himself practiced the tango walk every
day and so we did together the same with Nito who always starts his lessons
(it does not matter the level) with a set of exercises being the most
important the TANGO WALK.
Orlando Paiva admired for his elegance and the flowing tango walk he has ,
also practiced his skills and always taught exercises to walk and to pivot .

I understand perfectly well what Tom is expressing. I frequently
experienced similar feelings.

I usually start my lessons with a set of exercises including the Tango walk
but I allow the beginner to walk as he pleases... for a while. As we repeat
those exercises again and again they slowly change their walk without
knowing it. Most students seem to enjoy the exercises very much, there are
few that routinely arrive late to avoid the exercises, they never become
good dancers.

My impression is that to teach heel first for a long time and then to
attempt to change it to toe first is going to be more difficult or
impossible.

Most of the instructors I ever met teaching heel first were foreigners and
frequently coming from ballroom dancing.

Finally we should ask ourselves if the pretension of attracting more
students and decreasing the attrition rate justifies changing the nature of
the dance.

It is possible to teach to walk in different ways as we know from ballet and

>from ballroom.

Flat footed, toe-first, heel first. It is possible to achieve a genuine
look dancing heel first (many dancers at Sunderland).

Finally stepping toe-first properly should not cause any pain or injury.

Please continue to dance and teach the way it pleases you.

Un abrazo, Sergio.

Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.

Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:05:41 -0400
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Heels first vs. toes first
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Cc: Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>

I've read a lot on this subject. Unless I've missed it, a salient point is missing from the discussion about walking on the toes. (I walk on the ball of the foot.) To get onto the ball of the foot, I pull my hips back. As the hips go backward, my weight comes forward onto the ball of the foot. This is NOT the same thing as bending over. I'm not bending over. My hips going backward is a lateral motion. Bending forward is a vertical action. I'm maintaining my axis. If I bend forward, my axis goes forward as well, followed by my balance.

With my weight forward, my chest is forward, making contact with the woman's chest. As I move my chest forward, the woman steps backward. My free foot comes forward to support my weight AFTER the woman moves backward.

I also dance ballroom where the lead is different. When I step forward with my heel, my pelvis goes forward for the smooth dances (Tango, Waltz, Fox trot). The lead ISN'T in the chest. I don't understand how to lead Argentine tango same way as ballroom, stepping on the heel. If I move my chest first in Argentine tango, I don't understand how I can dance with my heel.

Anyway, dancing with my hips back, weight forward, and stepping on the ball of the foot works for me. I know better than to convince the list that is the ONLY way.

Michael
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Two weeks to the Atlanta Tango Festival where I've been told by a Washingtonian that "it's all close embrace." I'll have to wait and find out. Hope Delta Airlines doesn't go bankrupt in the next two weeks.

Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Heels first vs. toes first


--- Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> wrote:

> To get onto the ball of the foot, I pull my hips back. As
> the hips go backward, my weight comes forward onto the
> ball of the foot.

Hmmm. Pulling the hips back give me a different sensation
than when I think about bringing my chest forward by
tilting my pelvis forward. Interesting.

> With my weight forward, my chest is forward, making
> contact with the woman's chest. As I move my chest
> forward, the woman steps backward. My free foot comes
> forward to support my weight AFTER the woman moves
> backward.
>
> I also dance ballroom where the lead is different. When I
> step forward with my heel, my pelvis goes forward for the
> smooth dances (Tango, Waltz, Fox trot). The lead ISN'T in
> the chest. I don't understand how to lead Argentine tango
> same way as ballroom, stepping on the heel. If I move my
> chest first in Argentine tango, I don't understand how I
> can dance with my heel.

> Michael
> I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

It may help you to think of all walking movement as
starting from the pelvis with the chest simply resting on
top of the pelvis. This is independent of whether you're
dancing toe-first or heel-first. A good exercise is to
have someone place their hands on your hips and give you a
lot of resistance (I mean a lot). When I work with student
on this (I'm the one giving resistance), I watch their
shoulders. If their shoulders start coming forward before
I feel their hip movement (which usually happens), I
immediately stop them and point out that they are trying to
use their chest to walk, rather than their pelvis. The
common beginner's exercise of woman placing her hands on
the man's chest does a disservice in associating the
impulse to walk with the chest. It actually comes from the
man's body position. As the student learns to drives with
his/her pelvis & legs, I ease up on the resistance.

Also, I think of the chest as more of a space
creater/blocker than as something to force a movement from
the woman. The woman should be moving on her own.

These concepts may make walking forward heel-first easier
for you.


Trini de Pittsburgh


PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/




The fish are biting.

Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:32:38 +0000
From: rockies@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Heels first vs. toes first
To: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, Tango-L
<031820072032.18851.45FDA1E60000D7D5000049A322007374780101009B9D@comcast.net>


So far, this discussion has only touched on the mechanical aspects of walking. In a street walk anyway, there is a slight whipping action of the spine. In order to take a step, the body has to become off balance. It then regains it's balance after the step is taken. That may seem like common sense, but we usually do not analyze our own movements much, they become subconscious. So, the body is placed off balance by a slight whipping action of the spine, a stride occurs, and then the body regains balance, ready for either the next step, or it can of course pause at equilibrium. When accelerating in the step, the amount of lean of the body is determined by how much acceleration is desired. If there is a great whipping action, resulting in a great lean, then the forefoot is called into play, with the body stepping onto the toes and balls of feet. If there is not much of a whipping action, then the heel is called into play. This is referring to the natural way of walking, on the s
treet.
The ball/forefoot landing can be seen in sprinters, for example, as they come out of the starting blocks, they have an extreme body angle in order to acclerate hard, for the first few strides, and they are up on the toes and balls of feet. AS they reach top speed, the lean decreases, and they land in a more heel to toe fashion. But we do not dance with kinds of accelerations and forces that a runner would, so it is very difficult to land toe first, unless the strides are short.

If a person is to pull their pelvic girdle back, then other parts of the body have to compensate to maintain balance. The head may be out over the feet, but the pelvis lags. However, this would reduce contact with the follower, unless the follower conforms to the mirror image of the leader, which means, putting her hips forward. Most followers will say that this is a very uncomfortable position to be in. If they maintain a straighter stance instead, and the leader is still 'curved' then you will have reduced contact, which potentially means a less clear lead. Mind you, when both partners are in a very leaned but straight backed stance, they may reduce some contact over being absolutely vertical, but it can't be avoided, in order to communicate the lead effectively, and allow for movement. So... a very forward lean places the weight over the balls of the feet, at all times. But to maintain that forward lean requires back pressure from the follower, or one would fall over. Not
everbo
dy likes to dance this style. Obviously, it IS possible to walk on the toes and balls of feet all the time while dancing, but my point is, with a proper posture alignment, which is really just a balanced skeletal alignment (chest over hips over feet - the center of gravity of the upper body is always positioned over the center of the arches of the feet, at rest), it's very difficult to transition from the forefoot to the rear of the foot in order to give the impulse to the follower, unless of course she is providing back pressure. The majority don't really seem to dance this way though (some have referred to it as Apliado). When providing the impulse to the follower, I have heard it described as 'driving your heel into the floor.' This (and the slight whipping action of the spine) is what gives the follower the impulse to step.

As for driving with the pelvis and legs, as opposed to the chest, they are tied together, and you can't really seperate them, but power movements, such as providing impulse to the follower should be originating from the lower body, not the upper body. I recall one beginners class with Rebecca however, where she stated that the leader should 'fall slightly forward' on the first step, to provide the impulse for the follower to step. This didn't entirely make sense to me. I had never had a problem with making a follower take the first step, so why modify my technique? Instead of falling forward, I was using a slight whipping action like mentioned, and 'driving' the heel into the floor, but harder than usual for a step once underway. Most people say that a firm core is required to dance tango (although they will use different words for it that are confusing, such as ' you need to be up from here --points at mid rib cage level-- and down from here --points at upper level of pelvis
more
or less below navel). With a firm core, the impulse at chest level become much more pronounced and better communicated, but it is still coming from the lower body as Trini mentions. I will admit to not being a movement expert, and these thoughts are only my own analysis of movement. As always there may be differing schools of though.

I still think that the vast majority of dancers, even the ones who are said to be toe first, are in fact dancing heel first, but the toe makes contact so quickly after the heel (and toes stay so close to the floor as to never appear raised), that we see them as toe first dancers.

Randy F


-------------- Original message ----------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Heels first vs. toes first

Hi Randy,

--- rockies@comcast.net wrote:

> So far, this discussion has only touched on the
> mechanical aspects of walking. In a street walk anyway,
> there is a slight whipping action of the spine. In order
> to take a step, the body has to become off balance. It
> then regains it's balance after the step is taken. That
> may seem like common sense, but we usually do not analyze
> our own movements much, they become subconscious. So, the
> body is placed off balance by a slight whipping action of
> the spine, a stride occurs, and then the body regains
> balance, ready for either the next step, or it can of
> course pause at equilibrium.

That "whipping" action is what is I refer to as the
contrabody spiral of the body. It actually starts where
the spine changes curves (the thoracic curves inward, the
lumbar curves outward). At this point, the vertebraes
rotate in opposite directions (e.g, chest starts pointing
toward the right, while the hips start pointing toward the
left). In good dancers, you can see the spiral continue
all the way up their neck as the vertebrae move
independently of each other. The spiral also continues all
the way down into the foot, enabling a second spiral to
send the weight from the heel through the arch and onto the
metatarsals (big toe).

While this spiral can start the leg extension, it does not
start the actual weight transfer (such as in boleos). It
is the springing off of the big toe (that second spiral)
that begins the weight transfer.

This is an extremely useful concept to know as it loosens
the body and enables people to dance using less muscle.
Any type of torsion uses this as well. Understanding it
can also help one relax a tense partner (either man or
woman).

> If a person is to pull their pelvic girdle back, then
> other parts of the body have to compensate to maintain
> balance. The head may be out over the feet, but the
> pelvis lags.

A more accurate description than the pelvic girdle (which
is a big structure) would be tilting forward where the legs
join the hip socket. I believe this is actual action
Michael refers to as "pulling his hips back". If someone
standing by himself were to bend forward at this point with
a straight back, he would notice this legs angling back
more and more (i.e, he?d be sticking his butt out) as head
and shoulders come forward. Since we don?t dance tango
with our butts sticking out, it would make sense that we
would require more pressure from our partner to maintain
our balance as the lean increases. Your example of
sprinters is a nice way of thinking about this angle, which
changes during the dance as needed.

> As for driving with the pelvis and legs, as opposed to
> the chest, they are tied together, and you can't really
> seperate them, but power movements, such as providing
> impulse to the follower should be originating from the
> lower body, not the upper body. I recall one beginners
> class with Rebecca however, where she stated that the
> leader should 'fall slightly forward' on the first step,
> to provide the impulse for the follower to step. This
> didn't entirely make sense to me. I had never had a
> problem with making a follower take the first step, so
> why modify my technique? Instead of falling forward, I
> was using a slight whipping action like mentioned, and
> 'driving' the heel into the floor, but harder than usual
> for a step once underway.

> Randy F

Your technique is correct, according to my Alexander
Technique studies. You?re actually springing from the
metatarsals (the second spiral), which brings your weight
forward. Hence, Rebecca?s statement. She might have used
"falling forward" to dissuade using the chest as the
impetus to walk. It's a hard thing to describe without
going into detail about the spiraling. It might seem to
you as if you?re driving the heel, but it should really
start with the spiraling into the metatarsals from the
arch, which enables the weight to spread back to the heel
and spring off for that first step. It?s a cool thing to
study how the arch of the foot is designed to carry and
distribute such large amounts of weight.

Trini de Pittsburgh





PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/




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