5393  Holding a Baby on a Swing

Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 06:22:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Holding a Baby on a Swing
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Leaders, imagine your follower as a baby on a swing AND the baby is not strapped in. It is your job to move with the baby, holding it and not impeeding with its motion. You want the baby to feel the momentum and pauses in the swing. But, you want the baby to feel, and be, secure.

It's a way of moving with your follower and not restricting her movement at the points where she she should feel momentum and pauses. You see, you suggested the momentum and you suggested the pause, but, it is the follower who is free to intensify those feelings. This is part of what I mean when I say that women can dance, so I go along for the ride (to an extent).

A step is in three parts.

1. The leader suggests the direction and feel of the step.

2. The follower interprets what the leader has suggested and makes the step.

3. The leader follows the follower through the step.

Given that sequence, the leader merely suggested the motion. It is the follower who is taking you through the motion. You could ( you don't have to ) imagine that you are along for the ride. You could ( you don't have to ) imagine that you are along for the ride to take care of her ( make sure you are not throwing her off balance, assist her if she becomes off balance, etc ). When you do this, you could imagine that you are there, for the same purpose, taking care of a baby on a swing, where the momentum and the pauses are big and balance is pretty darn important.





Igor Polk <ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
Ok, I am coming back, since all you the way you are are a part of my
community.

There is a method of collective thinking called Brainstorming.
It is when ideas are spontaneously generated and thought about.

The rule number one in this way to invent something good and useful is:

NO CRITIC !!!

Absolutely forbidden.

Critic kills freedom of creativity and imagination. At least in this method.

I can elaborate more about it, but it is pretty much enough for now.

So far, I can count only two original ideas about tango dancing:

"Musician - violin" relationship,
( actually my idea was: "any dancer is a musical instrument", but let us
simplify it ).
And
"Painter - brush" relationship,
Offered if I am not mistaken by "Tango For Her"

Forgive me if I missed something.

The notion of "men and woman have equal rights" is the very fundamental,
which no one questions, but it is too trivial. We all know about it ( and,
frankly, it does not cover all aspects of tango dancing )

For especially angry ladies I can offer another one:

"A singer and his voice".

So, what would you say?

Igor Polk

Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:42:46 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Holding a Baby on a Swing and "you with your
prejudices"
To: "Tango For Her" <tangopeer@yahoo.com>, <tango-l@mit.edu>

I can feel disaster approaching. Tango for her, if you go on like this, we
are going to have the people on this list fighting pretty soon over the
question whether a woman may be compared, (and she better accept it lest she
wants to be called clueless, stubborn, missing something and so on), to a
violin, a cowbell, a baby on a swing, a cradle, a melting piece of chocolate
cake, a sailboat, a sportscar, a beanbag, whatever else you are going to
come up with next.
Can we just talk about something else, please?

groaning
Astrid

> Leaders, imagine your follower as a baby on a swing AND the baby is not
> strapped in.
> "Musician - violin" relationship,
> ( actually my idea was: "any dancer is a musical instrument", but let us
> simplify it ).
> And
> "Painter - brush" relationship,
> Offered if I am not mistaken by "Tango For Her"
>
> Forgive me if I missed something.
>
> The notion of "men and woman have equal rights" is the very fundamental,
> which no one questions, but it is too trivial. We all know about it ( and,
> frankly, it does not cover all aspects of tango dancing )
>
> For especially angry ladies I can offer another one:
>
> "A singer and his voice".
>
> So, what would you say?
>
> Igor Polk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> now.
>

Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:48:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Holding a Baby on a Swing and "you with your
prejudices"
To: Astrid <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>, tango-l@mit.edu

Okay, Astrid, I accept your lead.

Have a Merry Christmas!


Astrid <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp> wrote:
I can feel disaster approaching. Tango for her, if you go on like this, we
are going to have the people on this list fighting pretty soon over the
question whether a woman may be compared, (and she better accept it lest she
wants to be called clueless, stubborn, missing something and so on), to a
violin, a cowbell, a baby on a swing, a cradle, a melting piece of chocolate
cake, a sailboat, a sportscar, a beanbag, whatever else you are going to
come up with next.
Can we just talk about something else, please?

groaning
Astrid

> Leaders, imagine your follower as a baby on a swing AND the baby is not
> strapped in.
> "Musician - violin" relationship,
> ( actually my idea was: "any dancer is a musical instrument", but let us
> simplify it ).
> And
> "Painter - brush" relationship,
> Offered if I am not mistaken by "Tango For Her"
>
> Forgive me if I missed something.
>
> The notion of "men and woman have equal rights" is the very fundamental,
> which no one questions, but it is too trivial. We all know about it ( and,
> frankly, it does not cover all aspects of tango dancing )
>
> For especially angry ladies I can offer another one:
>
> "A singer and his voice".
>
> So, what would you say?
>
> Igor Polk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> now.
>

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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:00:27 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Holding a Baby on a Swing
To: tango-l@mit.edu

I really don't understand why some men have this need to think of their partner in any way other than as their dance partner. No, my
partner is not a little baby on a swing and I can't think of anything that would be more likely to take away my tango mood.

But, more importantly, I have big problems with the words 'suggest' in item 1 and 'interpret' in item 2. This seems to say that the man
gives some king of signal, which the woman then has to think about, 'interpret' and then decide what to do. I don't agree with this
approach. If she wants to, the woman should be able to turn her brain off completely, think about nothing, interpret nothing, decide
nothing and just follow the man - and this is what many [most?] women want. If the woman wants to be more activley involved in the
dance, of course she can be - but the man's lead should still be such that the woman has no choice about what the next step will be.
However, the expert follower can do many things in making that step and in suggesting how to continue the dance. The man can choose to
listen or not, but once he leads the next step, the decision has been taken and the woman must make the step that has been led. I will
concede that there are rare occasions, with special women, where this can change - but rare is the operative word and a man's dance
shouldn't be based on this idea.

The man should listen to the woman and give her time to contribute to the dance, but his leads should not be open to interpretation.
They should be clear and unambiguous. That's my opinion.

Keith, HK


On Mon Dec 24 22:22 , Tango For Her sent:

>Leaders, imagine your follower as a baby on a swing AND the baby is not strapped in. It is your job to move with the baby, holding it

and not impeeding with its motion. You want the baby to feel the momentum and pauses in the swing. But, you want the baby to feel, and
be, secure.

>
> It's a way of moving with your follower and not restricting her movement at the points where she she should feel momentum and

pauses. You see, you suggested the momentum and you suggested the pause, but, it is the follower who is free to intensify those
feelings. This is part of what I mean when I say that women can dance, so I go along for the ride (to an extent).

>
> A step is in three parts.
>
> 1. The leader suggests the direction and feel of the step.
>
> 2. The follower interprets what the leader has suggested and makes the step.
>
> 3. The leader follows the follower through the step.
>
> Given that sequence, the leader merely suggested the motion. It is the follower who is taking you through the motion. You could (

you don't have to ) imagine that you are along for the ride. You could ( you don't have to ) imagine that you are along for the ride to
take care of her ( make sure you are not throwing her off balance, assist her if she becomes off balance, etc ). When you do this, you
could imagine that you are there, for the same purpose, taking care of a baby on a swing, where the momentum and the pauses are big and
balance is pretty darn important.

Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:36:25 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Holding a Baby on a Swing
To: tango-l@mit.edu, Keith <keith@tangohk.com>

Just so that there's no misinterpretation and I be accused of 'throwing the woman around the floor', I'll add that I do agree with lead
and follow approach. The man makes the lead with his body - the woman commences her step [the man already knows what it will be] and the
man follows the movement of the womans's step.

Keith, HK


On Tue Dec 25 13:00 , Keith sent:

>I really don't understand why some men have this need to think of their partner in any way other than as their dance partner. No, my
>partner is not a little baby on a swing and I can't think of anything that would be more likely to take away my tango mood.
>
>But, more importantly, I have big problems with the words 'suggest' in item 1 and 'interpret' in item 2. This seems to say that the man
>gives some king of signal, which the woman then has to think about, 'interpret' and then decide what to do. I don't agree with this
>approach. If she wants to, the woman should be able to turn her brain off completely, think about nothing, interpret nothing, decide
>nothing and just follow the man - and this is what many [most?] women want. If the woman wants to be more activley involved in the
>dance, of course she can be - but the man's lead should still be such that the woman has no choice about what the next step will be.
>However, the expert follower can do many things in making that step and in suggesting how to continue the dance. The man can choose to
>listen or not, but once he leads the next step, the decision has been taken and the woman must make the step that has been led. I will
>concede that there are rare occasions, with special women, where this can change - but rare is the operative word and a man's dance
>shouldn't be based on this idea.
>
>The man should listen to the woman and give her time to contribute to the dance, but his leads should not be open to interpretation.
>They should be clear and unambiguous. That's my opinion.
>
>Keith, HK
>
>
>On Mon Dec 24 22:22 , Tango For Her sent:
>
>>Leaders, imagine your follower as a baby on a swing AND the baby is not strapped in. It is your job to move with the baby, holding it
>and not impeeding with its motion. You want the baby to feel the momentum and pauses in the swing. But, you want the baby to feel,

and

>be, secure.
>>
>> It's a way of moving with your follower and not restricting her movement at the points where she she should feel momentum and
>pauses. You see, you suggested the momentum and you suggested the pause, but, it is the follower who is free to intensify those
>feelings. This is part of what I mean when I say that women can dance, so I go along for the ride (to an extent).
>>
>> A step is in three parts.
>>
>> 1. The leader suggests the direction and feel of the step.
>>
>> 2. The follower interprets what the leader has suggested and makes the step.
>>
>> 3. The leader follows the follower through the step.
>>
>> Given that sequence, the leader merely suggested the motion. It is the follower who is taking you through the motion. You could (
>you don't have to ) imagine that you are along for the ride. You could ( you don't have to ) imagine that you are along for the ride

to

>take care of her ( make sure you are not throwing her off balance, assist her if she becomes off balance, etc ). When you do this, you
>could imagine that you are there, for the same purpose, taking care of a baby on a swing, where the momentum and the pauses are big and
>balance is pretty darn important.
>
>