4077 : How to teach without touching
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:44:28 -1200
From: Michael <tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET>
Subject: : How to teach without touching
Lois wrote:
I guess I didn't make it clear that this is during private
lessons. How do you teach one-on-one without dancing with
your student?
Lois:
The first half hour of my private lesson is exercises
1) Walking forward and back
2) Front and back ochos
3) One foot turns (to help with enrosques)
4) (This will be tough to explain.) I stand in front of the
wall on my left foot. I turn to my left until my right foot
(the free foot) wraps around the left foot. I reverse
direction. Then I change foot, standing on the right foot
and turning until the left foot wraps around. If the foot
wraps around, it means there's no tension in the foot. If
the foot doesn't wrap or I'm pushing the foot around, it
means I'm using muscles to move the foot. This exercise is
helpful for learning boleos.
My teacher observes and comments: "Don't rush", "Don't
throw", "Keep your arms at your side and don't flap them."
etc. He concentrates on technique
For exercises, we don't have to dance. However, for specific
figures, yes, we dance.
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Temperature should be 60 on Thursday. Can Spring be far
behind?
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:53:00 -0500
From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
This reminds me of that beginner, a few years back, who complained that I
was invading her personal space, and I was just dancing open embrace...
Still laughing after all these years...
Seth
On 2/28/06, Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> wrote:
>
> Lois wrote:
> I guess I didn't make it clear that this is during private
> lessons. How do you teach one-on-one without dancing with
> your student?
>
***
> Lois:
> The first half hour of my private lesson is exercises
> 1) Walking forward and back
> 2) Front and back ochos
> 3) One foot turns (to help with enrosques)
> 4) (This will be tough to explain.) I stand in front of the
> wall on my left foot. I turn to my left until my right foot
> (the free foot) wraps around the left foot. I reverse
> direction. Then I change foot, standing on the right foot
> and turning until the left foot wraps around. If the foot
> wraps around, it means there's no tension in the foot. If
> the foot doesn't wrap or I'm pushing the foot around, it
> means I'm using muscles to move the foot. This exercise is
> helpful for learning boleos.
>
> My teacher observes and comments: "Don't rush", "Don't
> throw", "Keep your arms at your side and don't flap them."
> etc. He concentrates on technique
>
> For exercises, we don't have to dance. However, for specific
> figures, yes, we dance.
>
> Michael Ditkoff
> Washington, DC
> Temperature should be 60 on Thursday. Can Spring be far
> behind?
>
>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:05:42 -0800
From: Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Well Seth, I must say that, regardless of what others might think of it, if that person complained about her personal space being invaded, that ought to be heeded. She may not be ready for a close embrace tango dancing, but her feelings are most likely genuine and should be so respected. And that too, I believe, is a part of the etiquette we ought to hold dear, don't you think?
...dubravko
seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
This reminds me of that beginner, a few years back, who complained that I
was invading her personal space, and I was just dancing open embrace...
Still laughing after all these years...
==================================================
seek, appreciate, and create beauty
==================================================
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:28:16 -0500
From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Dubravko,
I am rejecting your presumptious accusations that I am a ruffian.
Tango INVADES privacy, and this IS one of its attractions. Even holding a
hand is, maybe even more so in certain circumstances.
As they say, if you can't stand the heat, don't go in the kitchen.
Seth
On 3/1/06, Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Well Seth, I must say that, regardless of what others might think of it,
> if that person complained about her personal space being invaded, that ought
> to be heeded. She may not be ready for a close embrace tango dancing, but
> her feelings are most likely genuine and should be so respected. And that
> too, I believe, is a part of the etiquette we ought to hold dear, don't you
> think?
>
> ...dubravko
>
> seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> This reminds me of that beginner, a few years back, who complained that
> I
> was invading her personal space, and I was just dancing open embrace...
>
> Still laughing after all these years...
>
> =========================
==========================
=
> seek, appreciate, and create beauty
> =========================
==========================
=
>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:37:59 -0800
From: Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Hmmmm, interesting. A couple of observations.
I do not think that tango invades anything. In my view, my dancing partner will open to the communication with me as much as she feels comfortable to and I respect that - no invasion is welcome there or is "one of [tango's] attractions" unless my partner is a masochist of some sort.
Accusing you of being a ruffian, Seth? Never said that, never meant it. I do not know you from last years' snow. Just offered another point of view. "There is no Central Committee on tango" I say to my friends. So, while you might like being an invader, I do not, and that's that.
...dubravko
==================================================
seek, appreciate, and create beauty
==================================================
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:57:34 -0500
From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
While the struggle between the sexes is pervasive in human behaviour, it
becomes focused in Tango. Two bodies, touching of common accord, experience
sensuality. These feelings wouldn't arise without getting into - if
invasion is too strong a word for you - the personal space of both. If a
dancer is bothered by this, he/she shouldn't dance.
Grow up.
Seth
On 3/1/06, Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmmm, interesting. A couple of observations.
>
> I do not think that tango invades anything. In my view, my dancing
> partner will open to the communication with me as much as she feels
> comfortable to and I respect that - no invasion is welcome there or is "one
> of [tango's] attractions" unless my partner is a masochist of some sort.
>
> Accusing you of being a ruffian, Seth? Never said that, never meant it.
> I do not know you from last years' snow. Just offered another point of view.
> "There is no Central Committee on tango" I say to my friends. So, while you
> might like being an invader, I do not, and that's that.
>
> ...dubravko
>
>
> =========================
==========================
=
> seek, appreciate, and create beauty
> =========================
==========================
=
>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:20:59 -0500
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
While I agree with the need to respect people's personal space and limits, I
also agree that tango is an activity that requires a fair measure of
physical closeness and one could even say invasive maneuvers ;-). Even in
the most open embrace, nuevo tango styles, the man will definitely "invade"
the space of the woman and vise-versa. All one needs to do to verify this is
to watch all the sacadas, ganchos, barridas, etc. which are part of that
repertory, and the embrace itself is of a "flexible" nature that varies from
close to fairly open.
Naturally, the term close embrace denotes physical closeness and even what's
know as salon tango requires a close embrace where torsos are in contact.
Personally, I find that dancing tango without a close connection is not much
of a tango experience. If someone has issues with physical closeness or
issues with their boundaries of personal space, I'd respectfully suggest
that tango is not for them. I think it's pretty silly and presumptuous to
complain that someone is too close to you while dancing tango in a close
embrace and sometimes even in an open embrace.
Regards,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] : How to teach without touching
>Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:57:34 -0500
>
>While the struggle between the sexes is pervasive in human behaviour, it
>becomes focused in Tango. Two bodies, touching of common accord, experience
>sensuality. These feelings wouldn't arise without getting into - if
>invasion is too strong a word for you - the personal space of both. If a
>dancer is bothered by this, he/she shouldn't dance.
>
>Grow up.
>
>Seth
>
>On 3/1/06, Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hmmmm, interesting. A couple of observations.
> >
> > I do not think that tango invades anything. In my view, my dancing
> > partner will open to the communication with me as much as she feels
> > comfortable to and I respect that - no invasion is welcome there or is
>"one
> > of [tango's] attractions" unless my partner is a masochist of some sort.
> >
> > Accusing you of being a ruffian, Seth? Never said that, never meant
>it.
> > I do not know you from last years' snow. Just offered another point of
>view.
> > "There is no Central Committee on tango" I say to my friends. So, while
>you
> > might like being an invader, I do not, and that's that.
> >
> > ...dubravko
> >
> >
> > ==================================================
> > seek, appreciate, and create beauty
> > ==================================================
> >
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:33:16 -0800
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
I've been taught, and I believe, and it is being confirmed by research, that growing up involves realizing that the other people out there are people with needs and feelings, too. I think it's called empathy, or emotional intellegence. It's something that some people have a lot of, and some people don't have much of. Some people develop it as they experience life. And some people don't.
I am often amazed when I have to explain to women that when they embrace me to dance, it is up to them to determine if they want to dance in a close or open embrace.
Sorry, for many of us it isn't "Me Tarzan. You Jane." We respect women more than that.
On the other hand there seem to be many women who think a man is "not strong" if he doesn't pull her into a close embrace. Whatever.
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:35:01 -0800
From: Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Perhaps "invade" is just poor choice of a word:
https://www.m-w.com/dictionary/invade
And, of course, as I have stated previously, if a person is bothered by close embrace as being too invasive, I trust that this person will just not angage in it. I am not the one to tell her what to do or how to do it and to laugh at her because her sensitivities are different from mine.
I consider it a special gift to me every time a woman accepts to dance with me and I treat it that way. Dancing is, among other things, a continuous negotiation whereby partners with mutual consent establish levels of closeness they both feel comfortable with.
Again, this is just me, not the way tango should or should not be danced.
...dubravko
P.S. "grow up?" LOL
==================================================
seek, appreciate, and create beauty
==================================================
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:22:51 -0800
From: Fred Herman & Mary Menz <fred.herman@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Seem however, that if even open embrace is too space-invasive for
someone, Argentine tango is simply not for them - try International
style where you lean away from each-other. Mary
>Well Seth, I must say that, regardless of what others might think of
>it, if that person complained about her personal space being
>invaded, that ought to be heeded. She may not be ready for a close
>embrace tango dancing, but her feelings are most likely genuine and
>should be so respected. And that too, I believe, is a part of the
>etiquette we ought to hold dear, don't you think?
>
> ...dubravko
>
>seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> This reminds me of that beginner, a few years back, who complained that I
>was invading her personal space, and I was just dancing open embrace...
>
>Still laughing after all these years...
>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:34:51 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@YAHOO.COM> escribis: Perhaps "invade" is just poor choice of a word:
https://www.m-w.com/dictionary/invade
The venerable Merriam-Webster misses the naughty, playful, sexy nuances of the Tango Invasion term. This is understandable for a dictionary, but from so-called Tango dancers? Do they know what a real Tango is?
Lucia ;->
LOL
A tu celular ?no le falta algo?
Usa Yahoo! Messenger y Correo Yahoo! en tu telifono celular.
Mas informacisn aqum.
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:55:22 -0600
From: Martha Stephenson <mamastep@TDS.NET>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Hmmm. Interesting that this has been a male dominated thread. Perhaps Seth was holding her too tight, or not easing up/back when she tried for mor=
e comfortable position. Did you ask her what she meant by the statement? It is hard to know what was meant without her here to defend herself.
Em
>
> From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
> Date: 2006/03/01 Wed AM 10:53:00 CST
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] : How to teach without touching
>
> This reminds me of that beginner, a few years back, who complained that I
> was invading her personal space, and I was just dancing open embrace...
>
> Still laughing after all these years...
>
> Seth
>
> On 2/28/06, Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> wrote:
> >
> > Lois wrote:
> > I guess I didn't make it clear that this is during private
> > lessons. How do you teach one-on-one without dancing with
> > your student?
> >
*******
> > Lois:
> > The first half hour of my private lesson is exercises
> > 1) Walking forward and back
> > 2) Front and back ochos
> > 3) One foot turns (to help with enrosques)
> > 4) (This will be tough to explain.) I stand in front of the
> > wall on my left foot. I turn to my left until my right foot
> > (the free foot) wraps around the left foot. I reverse
> > direction. Then I change foot, standing on the right foot
> > and turning until the left foot wraps around. If the foot
> > wraps around, it means there's no tension in the foot. If
> > the foot doesn't wrap or I'm pushing the foot around, it
> > means I'm using muscles to move the foot. This exercise is
> > helpful for learning boleos.
> >
> > My teacher observes and comments: "Don't rush", "Don't
> > throw", "Keep your arms at your side and don't flap them."
> > etc. He concentrates on technique
> >
> > For exercises, we don't have to dance. However, for specific
> > figures, yes, we dance.
> >
> > Michael Ditkoff
> > Washington, DC
> > Temperature should be 60 on Thursday. Can Spring be far
> > behind?
> >
--
o
> > send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
--
> >
>
"[She] is one of the secret masters of the world: a Librarian. They control information. Don't ever piss one off."
— The Callahan Touch
Spider Robinson
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:11:08 -0800
From: Zarlengo <zarlengo@MAC.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching - Suspension Moves ...
Try teach suspension moves without touching!
Domenico
While I agree with the need to respect people's personal space and
limits, I
also agree that tango is an activity that requires a fair measure of
physical closeness and one could even say invasive maneuvers ;-) .
Even in
the most open embrace, nuevo tango styles, the man will definitely
"invade"
the space of the woman and vise-versa. All one needs to do to verify
this is
to watch all the sacadas, ganchos, barridas, etc. which are part of that
repertory, and the embrace itself is of a "flexible" nature that
varies from
close to fairly open.
Naturally, the term close embrace denotes physical closeness and even
what's
know as salon tango requires a close embrace where torsos are in
contact.
Personally, I find that dancing tango without a close connection is
not much
of a tango experience. If someone has issues with physical closeness or
issues with their boundaries of personal space, I'd respectfully suggest
that tango is not for them. I think it's pretty silly and
presumptuous to
complain that someone is too close to you while dancing tango in a close
embrace and sometimes even in an open embrace.
Regards,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
> From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
> Reply-To: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] : How to teach without touching
> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:57:34 -0500
>
> While the struggle between the sexes is pervasive in human
behaviour, it
> becomes focused in Tango. Two bodies, touching of common accord,
experience
> sensuality. These feelings wouldn't arise without getting into - if
> invasion is too strong a word for you - the personal space of
both. If a
> dancer is bothered by this, he/she shouldn't dance.
>
> Grow up.
>
> Seth
>
> On 3/1/06, Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hmmmm, interesting. A couple of observations.
> >
> > I do not think that tango invades anything. In my view, my
dancing
> > partner will open to the communication with me as much as she feels
> > comfortable to and I respect that - no invasion is welcome there
or is
> "one
> > of [tango's] attractions" unless my partner is a masochist of
some sort.
> >
> > Accusing you of being a ruffian, Seth? Never said that, never
meant
> it.
> > I do not know you from last years' snow. Just offered another
point of
> view.
> > "There is no Central Committee on tango" I say to my friends.
So, while
> you
> > might like being an invader, I do not, and that's that.
> >
> > ...dubravko
> >
> >
> > ==================================================
> > seek, appreciate, and create beauty
> > ==================================================
> >
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:18:23 -0800
From: burl burl <burlq7@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: : How to teach without touching
Are you kidding? The tango crowd (at least in New York City) is full of people with laughable sensitivites (as you put it). Sometimes you get stuck for a tanda with a complete idiot--I laugh at them behind their back, whisper insidious inanities about them to my friends, and x them off the dance list.
To make an omlete ya gotta break egges.
yours
Burleigh
Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@YAHOO.COM> wrote: Perhaps "invade" is just poor choice of a word:
https://www.m-w.com/dictionary/invade
And, of course, as I have stated previously, if a person is bothered by close embrace as being too invasive, I trust that this person will just not angage in it. I am not the one to tell her what to do or how to do it and to laugh at her because her sensitivities are different from mine.
I consider it a special gift to me every time a woman accepts to dance with me and I treat it that way. Dancing is, among other things, a continuous negotiation whereby partners with mutual consent establish levels of closeness they both feel comfortable with.
Again, this is just me, not the way tango should or should not be danced.
...dubravko
P.S. "grow up?" LOL
==================================================
seek, appreciate, and create beauty
==================================================
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
