1281 Hyperbole
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:34:09 -0600
From: Lynne Butler <lynneoaks@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Hyperbole
Clayton suggests that "Perhaps we should just agree to dicontinue the use of
any simile, metaphor or
hyperbole on the list lest we might commit a some sort of literary crime."
He doesn't really mean for us to do that of course. But okay. And just to
clarify, I love it when someone knows enough to drill down, say, to a word's
third Webster definition--and it puts a little zing in their language. But
I still say a few should be used with great care, in order to protect the
power words can have. (As a silly example - does it bother anyone else on
this list to see what they'll list under "tango" on e-bay, for example? Any
depiction of any latin-looking dancers is common. Or any cheesy
frosted-glass gal lifting her dress. Or any red dress for that matter.)
But while I'll turn the other cheek for most of this silliness, and wouldn't
call it a literary crime, I do think it doesn't hurt to think of those
who've endured real violence (another word that I'm sure also has many
milquetoast definitions in Webster), those who've expericed rape of the
first definition, should at least be considered before painting any old
unpleasant, but entirely escapable, experience with the same brush. There
are a million other words to describe bad dance behavior--violation is a
good one. And it just seems like a better way to go.
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:28:22 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hyperbole/Violation
Apologies if I'm dense or only checked in to the middle of this thread
and am clueless as a result...
Please be explicit for me. I want to understand.
I think you're saying that we should avoid the term "rape" in the
context of tango in deference to those who have endured "first-definition"
rape? I can certainly see your point.
On the other hand it seems to miss the point of hyperbole, which is to
amplify or intensify focus on an issue. There are in fact instances of
"violation" in tango. These are bad things, to be
avoided/eliminated/recovered-from, and calling attention to the issue can
help that.
On this subject, we had an incident in Portland a couple of years ago
in which a tanguera accused a tanguero of off-dancefloor violations. When
both sides of the story were heard, it was difficult for me and some others
to come to a definite conclusion. Others of course were willing to take one
side or the other with conviction.
In the process, IMO, hyperbole almost pushed the incident into a witch
hunt or lynch mob. This, to me, is the bigger risk of hyperbole, rather than
the possibility of offending by trivializing the pain of a "real" victim.
But the whole incident did raise an awareness of the kinds of things
that can occur in a close embrace on the dancefloor, and long discussions
ensued regarding "protecting" especially new women dancers - though it is
also understood that women can (much less often, of course) commit
categorically similar "violations."
I would like some feedback form the list:
What kinds of incidents have occurred?
What has been done in response to those incidents? Did those responses fix
anything?
What is recommended in general as a method of eliminating or preventing the
occurrance of such incidents?
What about the "entirely escapable" part? Should we be educating new dancers
of the potential for such things and coach them on how to extract
themselves? (I suspect most instructors do this to some degree.)
What do they do in Argentina when such things occur?
Thanks,
J
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:50:28 -0500
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Hyperbole/Violation
Last year, in another dance scene, a couple who were dancing together
got into some kind of disagreement. The woman talked to the organizers,
and they asked him not to come anymore. Rumors flew, things were hinted
at, and the guy kind of became a pariah in the dance scene. A couple
months later, these two started talking and dancing together socially.
Obviously she had forgiven him for whatever transgression, but sides had
already been taken in the community. He suffered great loss of respect.
Now I only know what I heard from rumors and what I saw publicly, but
here's my guess: The guy is a bit of a romantic idealist. This woman
liked the affection, attention and the dancing she got from this guy,
but wasn't interested in anything more. Instead of telling him, she let
it get out of hand, and then asked the organizers to do her work for
her. They took it too seriously, pulling a "white knight" for a supposed
distressed damsel. They never told anyone what he had done, just "you'd
better watch out for that guy"
So - she has obviously forgiven him. Will the community? They haven't
yet, and it's been a year.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Jay Rabe
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 9:28 AM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Hyperbole/Violation
>
>
> Apologies if I'm dense or only checked in to the middle
> of this thread and am clueless as a result...
>
> Please be explicit for me. I want to understand.
>
> I think you're saying that we should avoid the term
> "rape" in the context of tango in deference to those who have
> endured "first-definition" rape? I can certainly see your point.
> On the other hand it seems to miss the point of
> hyperbole, which is to amplify or intensify focus on an
> issue. There are in fact instances of "violation" in tango.
> These are bad things, to be
> avoided/eliminated/recovered-from, and calling attention to
> the issue can help that.
>
> On this subject, we had an incident in Portland a couple
> of years ago in which a tanguera accused a tanguero of
> off-dancefloor violations. When both sides of the story were
> heard, it was difficult for me and some others to come to a
> definite conclusion. Others of course were willing to take
> one side or the other with conviction.
> In the process, IMO, hyperbole almost pushed the
> incident into a witch hunt or lynch mob. This, to me, is the
> bigger risk of hyperbole, rather than the possibility of
> offending by trivializing the pain of a "real" victim.
>
> But the whole incident did raise an awareness of the
> kinds of things that can occur in a close embrace on the
> dancefloor, and long discussions ensued regarding
> "protecting" especially new women dancers - though it is also
> understood that women can (much less often, of course) commit
> categorically similar "violations."
>
> I would like some feedback form the list:
> What kinds of incidents have occurred?
> What has been done in response to those incidents? Did those
> responses fix anything? What is recommended in general as a
> method of eliminating or preventing the occurrance of such
> incidents? What about the "entirely escapable" part? Should
> we be educating new dancers of the potential for such things
> and coach them on how to extract themselves? (I suspect most
> instructors do this to some degree.) What do they do in
> Argentina when such things occur?
>
> Thanks,
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:33:20 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hyperbole/Violation
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:40:33 -0700
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Hyperbole and Litotes
Litotes first.
Not that I think that anybody really misses the distinction; but it pays to
keep in mind in some discussions the difference between "inappropriate"
behaviour (rude, inconsiderate, "fresh", etc), or lovers' quarrels, and
unlawful, unethical, or seriously unprofessional behaviour, such as violating
someone else's mail. Philandering is there somewhere. All by itself, it does
not bother me in the least, but the law sometimes feels otherwise.
Next: presumption of innocence, not taking sides foolishly, and so on. Of
course. It absolutely must be. But one thing this is not, to wit, presumption
of non-existence of the bad behaviour. We are not required to say: Oh, this
body seems to be in a really bad way, all cut up and dead too, but let us not
jump to the conclusion that something untoward may have happened.
It also does not mean that one cannot come to reasonable conclusions or take
reasonable precautions; for instance, being on the look out for fraud
(deception for gain), provided one does not persecute (or slander, or libel)
anybody not properly convicted. Presumption of innocence does not require one
to park in a run down neighborhood.
This is what I try to do in real life or any of its virtual alternatives; and
what I am pretty sure I do.
Now about the word rape. "Dance floor rape" is an unschooled and insensitive
combination. The use of rape to refer to a major rip-off, e.g., of a country
by its political structure, or something like that, is kind of a hyperbole,
if one does not get too technical about it. I am not shocked by it, and it
will not be very productive for anyone else to be, since such usage is, and
has been for ages, very common. Besides, it has a good semantic pedigree.
Finally, my own use. Rape in its most basic contemporary sense involves great
violence to a person's will. Using the word to characterise other situations
involving great violence to a person's will is pretty much straight metaphor.
If the violence is serious enough, the metaphor is neither wasteful nor
ineffective. It is a good thing to understand that people so much as
threatened with, say, a serious invasion of privacy, or a serious attack on
their good name, may also suffer a greatly distressing feeling of
powerlessness. Violence comes in many forms.
Cheers,
