1876  i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:45:19 -0700
From: robin thomas <niborsamoht@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

it looks like i need to get a laptop. i'm just so fed
up with skipping cd's when i'm dj'ing.

so i understand i need a "good" soundcard and that i
need to have high quality mp3's.

i have a desk top mac (g4) already so should i stick
with mac or get a pc (i've no idea how to use one)

i am the least techy dj you will ever meet! and maybe
one of ther poorest. $600 is a lot of money for me!

the computer will really only be for dj'ing.

is that enough info? can anyone help? anyone want to
sell me one?

Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:20:58 +0200
From: "Kohlhaas, Bernhard" <bernhard.kohlhaas@SAP.COM>
Subject: Re: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

Hi Robin

> it looks like i need to get a laptop. i'm just so fed
> up with skipping cd's when i'm dj'ing.

I use a laptop for dj'ing and I love it. However it is a good idea
to have some backup CDs and a CD player in case the laptop all the
sudden dies on you.

> so i understand i need a "good" soundcard and that i
> need to have high quality mp3's.

I use an external soundcard that is connected via USB to my PC.
That generally lessens the amount of noise and interference coming
from the electronic components of the computer. It also has the added
benefits that you can use the internal soundcard and the headset output
of your computer to listen into some piece of music, while the main
tanda is playing.

It is hard to say what "high quality" means, since the fidelity for
most historical recordings is poor at best. However I tend to err
on the side of caution and record with variable bitrate which is
usually >220 kpbs for modern recordings and >170kpbs for older recordings.
It takes up a lot of hard drive space though, I use one 80GB harddrive just
for my MP3s (which is about 70% tango) and of course you need a backup drive.
But if you want to be more economic with harddrive space, encode older
tangos (1920s-1940s) at 128kpbs and newer ones at 160-192kpbs.

> i have a desk top mac (g4) already so should i stick
> with mac or get a pc (i've no idea how to use one)
>
> i am the least techy dj you will ever meet! and maybe
> one of ther poorest. $600 is a lot of money for me!
>
> the computer will really only be for dj'ing.

That's a tough one. I'm tempted to say "Stay with what system you know",
but then I don't know Macs at all. Plus the price could be a big hurdle,
since my impression is that Macs tend to be more expensive than PCs.

> is that enough info? can anyone help?

I could give you more infos on how to set it up on a PC. If you're interested,
just drop me an email.

Bernhard

Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:54:25 -0700
From: Kos Zahariev <Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

>
>it looks like i need to get a laptop. i'm just so fed
>up with skipping cd's when i'm dj'ing.
>
>so i understand i need a "good" soundcard and that i
>need to have high quality mp3's.

Well, it depends. You should be aware that going the "mp3" route means that you
will lose sound quality because mp3 is a lossy compression format. Your tangos
will not sound as good as they were on the CDs. In addition, any manipulations
you make on the files, be it volume normalization/adjustment or just changing
back and forth between formats, will make things worse audio-wise.

If you want to do away with skipping CDs, yet play tangos with CD quality, you
will have to use a lossless compression like 'ape' (Monkey's audio) for your
tangos, on a laptop with an external soundcard (via the USB port). Tangos in
'ape' format average 10 Megabytes of disk space per tango, which is not a
problem with today's laptop disk drives of 20 thousand Megabytes (20 GB) and
up - enough for 2000 tangos or more. The popular consumer level external
soundcard is Soundblaster Extigy, which some have complained from; I use
Audiophile USB, but there are others.

However, with a budget of $600 or so, you could be forced into a 2-3 year-old
laptop, which will probably have a 10GB hard drive, and this would confine you
to mp3 because of the disk space.

Another consideration might be the variety and availability of software for
'mp3' manipulation and DJing versus for 'ape'. Being a tango DJ using lossless
compression, I am using the dBpoweramp software as my system, but I really
have to know my tangos as dBpoweramp cannot screen another tango number while
the current one is playing. It was probably a lot more work to get set up with
a lossless compression tango DJ system on a laptop, as opposed to an
'mp3'-based system, but I'd like to think that the results are a lot more
satisfying :-)

Regards,
Konstantin.

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:14:12 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:54:25 -0700 Kos Zahariev <Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA>
writes:

> >
> >it looks like i need to get a laptop. i'm just so fed
> >up with skipping cd's when i'm dj'ing.
> >

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:54:25 -0700 Kos Zahariev <Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA>
writes:

> >
> >it looks like i need to get a laptop. i'm just so fed
> >up with skipping cd's when i'm dj'ing.
> >

The DJs I have seen using a computer and MP3, did not do a good job.
They had 1 or 2 thousand tangos to choose from and what was coming out
was a horrible mix, a bunch of tangos, one wals here one milonga there,
no tandas, and no cortinas.
The DJs job is not just to play any music, if there is a charge for
admission and it is for dancing Argentine Tango, then the music should be
danceable Tango music.

To make it easier for the dancers, the music should be on Tandas and with
Cortinas, please find out about tandas and cortinas in previous postings.
The easiest way to do this is to use a CD recorder and record a few
tandas.

4 Tangos
Cortina
4 Tangos
Cortina
3 Milongas or Valses
Cortina..... Different from the others, it will
let you know when to change the CD.

This setup will give you about 1/2 hour for dancing each time you change
the CD.


Elemer from Redmond

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:22:41 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

As a dj, I have some reservations about the use of preset programs. Some
djs use them with moderate success, but if you play the same pre-recorded
CDs with a half hour to full hour of programming, the evening's music will
become quite predictable (boring) to the dancers if you play music at the
same venue with any frequency. Programming an evening's music from the
2000-3000 possibilities in a decent dj-sized tango collection offers many
options that are likely to be poor choices for dancing. As a compromise
between spontaniety and manageability, I use CDs that have one tanda per
CD, and I have created alternative versions of some of the tandas that I
tend to play a lot.

To my knowledge, these same strategies can be used with dj programs for
computers.

Others have discussed the pluses and minuses of Macs vs. PCs and the
advantages of MP3 and other file types, so I will not comments on specific
choices of laptops and software to dj.

I do not buy the argument that tango recordings are of low fidelity and
there is so much noise at a milonga that the sound quality of the playback
medium does not matter much. Consequently, I do have some reservations
about the sound-quality of MP3 files. Playing music from files in my
computer, I can hear the difference between MP3 files (even those ripped
at a high rates) and AIFF (CD) files. Because it is the same sound card,
I have to attribute the difference to the lossy MP3 medium. Nonetheless,
I recognize that some djs prefer the convenience of the MP3 medium and are
willing to live with some loss of sound quality.

I am not sure that a laptop is a more reliable medium than pre-burnt CDs.
I have been at more than one event where the dj's computer crashed or the
dj program on the computer failed to operate reliably. I have only had
one of my 120+ CDs of tandas misbehave while deejaying. When I pulled it
out of the machine, I discovered that it had a glob of sticky dirt on it.
Cleaning it off completely restored its functionality.

I have had very good success in producing audio CD-s using Yamaha and Sony
CD-Rs with Toast on my Mac computer and Easy CD on my PC (burning at a
relatively slow 8x rate). I did have difficulty producing audio CDs when
I used TDK and Memorex CD-Rs--though these brands seemed to work fine for
general data storage.

For the dj who wants to use pre-burnt CDs, my recommendation is to test
several brands of CD-Rs and find the ones that burn reliably on your
computer. I also pre-test all my CDs on my finicky home CD player before
taking them to milongas where everyone is depending on me for the music.

With best regards,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:28:30 -0700
From: Kos Zahariev <Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

>
>As a dj, I have some reservations about the use of preset programs. Some
>djs use them with moderate success, but if you play the same pre-recorded
>CDs with a half hour to full hour of programming, the evening's music will
>become quite predictable (boring) to the dancers if you play music at the
>same venue with any frequency. Programming an evening's music from the
>2000-3000 possibilities in a decent dj-sized tango collection offers many
>options that are likely to be poor choices for dancing. As a compromise
>between spontaniety and manageability, I use CDs that have one tanda per
>CD, and I have created alternative versions of some of the tandas that I
>tend to play a lot.

I am not sure how this came up in this thread - perhaps I have not received
all relevant postings on my server yet. Just in case, to clarify my reply
discussing the use of laptop with tango files, I do not assume or imply that
such a setup will be using preset programs/playlists when DJing.

In fact, in my experience DJing from a laptop (with CD-quality tangos) I have
been almost completely unable to do a "prepared", or "preset" list as a DJ. I
found myself craving the spontaneity, being able to change things on the fly
as I sense the mood in the milonga. I do play tandas, always, with cortinas,
but the tandas vary and are not set with always the same numbers in the same
order. There is something electrifying in running mentally only a few numbers
ahead of what is currently playing and assembling coherent tandas on the
fly. I am still learning a lot though, so maybe it is a phase..

Abrazos,
Konstantin.

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:33:10 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:22:41 -0500 Stephen Brown
<Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG> writes:

> between spontaniety and manageability, I use CDs that have one tanda
> per
> CD, and I have created alternative versions of some of the tandas
> that I
> tend to play a lot.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I would like to know more about how to play the cortinas, to have them
prerecorded ?, use a second CD player ?, how long should they be?.

Elemer in Redmond

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:02:53 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: i need advice about a laptop for dj'ing

In response to my previous posting, Elemer wrote:

>I would like to know more about how to play the cortinas, to have them
>prerecorded ?, use a second CD player ?, how long should they be?.

For each tanda I have recorded on CD, I have included the cortina. I have
used the same cortina on every CD, which is Flashes by Ry Cooder. Given
that I was sticking with a single cortina, my objectives for the cortina
were that it have a neutral effect on the mood created by the tango music
and that no one would find attractive for dancing. I found Ry Cooder's
Flashes met this requirement, but a number of other pieces of music would
also fit the objective. I recorded Flashes in its entirety (2:17), but I
typically fade it out after 15-30 seconds.

After the recent discussion about cortinas on Tango-L, I have given some
thought to using other pieces of music as cortinas, but I would still be
looking for music that had a neutral effect on the mood and music that no
one would find attractive for dancing. The new Geoff Muldaur recording of
Flashes is one piece I am considering.

I have a 4-second separation between each piece of music in a tanda and a
3-second separation before the cortina. I have not reprocessed the
music in anyway, but I have looked for the cleanest recordings, which
include some privately mastered material.

I also have some tandas of salsa, some of swing, and some of blues--music
that is appreciated in my community. I also two CDs full of selections of
Merengue and Cha Cha that were selected for me by another person with much
more knowledge about those music forms.

Given the vagaries of equipment, I purchased my own dj equipment--two CD
players and a mixer--which I often take with me to dj. Because the
equipment was designed for dj use, I have complete flexibility in remixing
the tandas--subject to the material I have on hand, which is about 350-400
tracks. The combination of this equipment (in its road cases) and my 120+
CDs of pre-burnt tandas is considerably more bulky than a laptop, and it
would be a hassle to take all the equipment when travelling by air. One
of the new laptops is about the same size and weight as my CD carrying
case.

With best regards,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/