1342 Intersexual Hostility at Milongas / White Flags
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:02:35 -0700
From: Andrew <andrew@ORCADIGITAL.COM>
Subject: Re: Intersexual Hostility at Milongas / White Flags
I just wanted to reassure anyone thinking about visiting Portland for tango
that it's really not as bad as all that! I think the "walk up and ask
someone to dance" system works just fine here, it's not perfect, and as with
any exchange that can involve being turned down for a request, you have to
remember not to always take things personally, but on the whole things are
pretty friendly here. Most of the people here have a number of friends in
the tango community, we chat, dance, it's not all a hostile war zone or
anything. You can dance all night long until your feet are sore and still
'respect the followers feelings' .. I don't know about the particular
incident being referred to, but the only time I've ever witnessed anything
akin to "yanking her out" was between friends who were being jovial and a
little silly. Heck, I've had friends drag me off the couch or seat to come
up and dance with them, but with out any force or enmity - some of our
dances have couches, people may wear jeans, there can be a lot of laughing
and having fun, so people aren't always completely formal. I have no doubt
that people do behave poorly, and that sort of thing may have happened, but
it isn't the rule. I haven't noticed a solidarity punishment per se,
however I have spoken to a number of women who do talk to one another about
different people they've danced with, and how they feel when they've danced
with them, e.g. describing a guy as being really musical, or very light,
magical, "I never felt like I had to be aware of my axis, I was just
perfectly on all the time, it was lovely!", etc .. or conversely, "I felt
like I was being pushed around a lot," "he hurts," or saying someone didn't
seem to be listening to the music, or (complaint I've heard a few times, and
sure to get one avoided) "he kept trying to lecture/teach me about how to
dance properly" .. I think it's natural to talk about our dance
experiences - I certainly talk with other leaders about people I enjoy or
have trouble with as followers - it's not usually negative, it's often "wow,
she has this amazing tummy connection, what fun!" or "she makes it feel
easier than walking by yourself ... " Anyhow, there are problems, and
occasional bad experiences, but it's not a disaster or anything. I like
dancing here.
Andrew, Portland
a.. To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
b.. Subject: [TANGO-L] Intersexual Hostility at Milongas [was White
Flags/DJs]
c.. From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
d.. Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:12:40 -0500
f.. Reply-To: Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG
g.. Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
<TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
----
Who would have ever guessed that new-age Portland was a hot bed of latent
and/or blatant intersexual hostility that boiled over at milongas.
[...]----- Original Message -----
a.. To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
a.. Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] White Flags/DJs
a.. From: Ward Stevens <wcstevens@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
a.. Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:50:58 -0700
>Dear Robert,
>I've got to take exception to
>some of what you say here.
>
>In particular to your comments
>about the head and eye method
>of asking for dances. This
>system developed as you say
>over a long period of time but
>it did so because it was the only
>workable system anyone could find.
>Our "just walk up to the women and
>ask" system is a complete train
>wreck. In the end it just means
>that anyone willing to respect
>the follows feelings won't get to
>dance.
>It's possible that with modifications
>our system could work but it would
>be at least as hard to bandage our
>system as to just use the tried and
>true Argentine system.
>If we are to reinvent the wheel we
>must start with two crucial pieces:
> 1. When a follow says no the
> lead accepts it instead of
> persisting, arguing or flat
> out yanking her out to her
> seat (I've personally
> observed all three behaviors
> at Portland dances by people
> up to and including self
> professed community leaders.)>
> 2. Feminine solidarity has got
> to be modified at least in
> that the follows have got to
> stop punishing leads for getting
> a no. Follows have to accept
> that another follow may have some
> other reason for not dancing
> that labeling the lead as
> unacceptable.
>
>-Ward.
