5656 Invitation and refusal
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:23:36 -0400
From: "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Subject: [Tango-L] Invitation and refusal
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
<DDA0C1BA83D32D45ACB965BA82FD81C7055F008E@LAWMNEXV2.LAW.LOCAL>
I agree with Melina, she nailed this topic. Use the cabaceo, people, it
works, everywhere, even in America. Its human nature. The only
exception is where milonga organizers keep it so darn dark you have to
use radar instead of cabaceo to find partners, which is unfortunately
becoming more common at milongas in the US.
A person who does not meet your eyes, stares at the floor, turns her
face, or does not smile at you when you pass by, is not a person you
want to dance with, no matter how good a dancer that person is. Sure,
if you asked, you might get a yes, out of politeness, but what good is
that ? It will be a mercy tanda, totally devoid of enthusiasm or
positive energy from that partner. No thanks. I am looking to dance
tango, so I need a connection. I need to see some interest, a sparkle
in her eyes, a slight smile, the porch light is on, someone is home, in
the house. That is going to be a good tanda.
Oh, and I totally understand Jack Dylan's attitude. If a woman turns
down the invite, whether verbal or cabaceo, in a definitvely cold
manner, such as slowly shaking her head no, why would you ever want to
ask that woman again ? Let her dance with Gary Barn.
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:58:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Invitation and Refusal
To: tango-l@mit.edu
""In a setting where men are allowed to invite directly, why should
women be not?
Hey! We're living in the 20th century. Why should women not be allowed
to invite a man, rather than sit around all night, because they're not
noticed or unknown or because nobody knows how to use the Cabeceo in
that place. Go women! Do it politely, not being pushy and willing to
accept a refusal. Same rights, same risks. ;-)""- Melina
I respectfully disagree with Melina. THe man has got to drive the dance.
And so he has got to feel the dance, and he's got to like the music and like his
partner.
Think of it as an erection. He's got to have it and drive it... If it's up to the guy to make it more than
a mediocre, ho-hum, absent minded, social dance...It's got to be Something moving.. Well then,
?he has got to feel the thing first..It has got to move him; the music, the
situation, the partner..it has got to be right.
And then it happens, the possible becomes the actual and both dancers have their
best dance of the night. The dance that they came here for...if however, one would rather
see political correctness then expect a possible political impotence.. go ahead..ask the guy..surprise him
maybe he will not like the song and maybe he will feel pressure and maybe he will have to say NO THANK YOU..
It's one thing to have to learn to lead and to have to perform and to be rated as a lead with each woman one dances.. and then, NOT to be able to even
choose to what music and with whom to dance...sure, the woman has got all that to live with too..but she can sit back and
wait until someone shows up with the whole package..then she can make the most out of what the emboldened lead delivers..that
sounds like a much more positive equation to me. In other words..please, have patience and wait, ladies.
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Invitation and Refusal
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> From: Mario sopelote@yahoo.com
>? In other words..please, have
> patience and wait, ladies.
>
Just one or two questions, Mario. Firstly, has any
woman at a milonga, ever asked you to dance?
If yes, how did you reply?
Jack
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:36:33 +1000
From: Gary <garybarn@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Invitation and refusal
To: tango-l@mit.edu
On 09/06/2009, at 3:23 AM, Nussbaum, Martin wrote:
> If a woman turns
> down the invite, whether verbal or cabaceo, in a definitvely cold
> manner, such as slowly shaking her head no, why would you ever want to
> ask that woman again ? Let her dance with Gary Barn.
But that was not what I was talking about. There were people here
saying that if a woman says no (for any reason, in any way), then
they blacklist her.
Bizarre.
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:31:55 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
From: "johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk" <johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Invitation and refusal
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>
> But that was not what I was talking about. There were people here
saying that if a woman says no (for any reason, in any way), then they
blacklist her.
It's not a question of blacklisting, but of taking no for an answer.
If a woman didn't want to dance with me 10 minutes ago, or last week,
or in November 1962, I assume she doesn't want to dance with me now. If
she has changed her mind, she can ask me - and I *never* turn any woman
down.
As for the other topic, of whether to ask someone else after having
been turned down: I never do. After all, I am saying: "My first choice
didn't want me, so I suppose I will have to make do with you." Instead
I would make for the bar as if that was where I was intending to go
anyway. The only time I break this rule is when I am in a place where
the dancing is on two floors, such as the old Cafe de Paris in London
or the Galax in Turku. Then I would go to the other floor, where my
rejection was not seen.
John Ward
Bristol, UK
Value your online security: Get 50% off Norton Security 2009 - https://www.tiscali.co.uk/securepc
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:14:32 +1000
From: Gary <garybarn@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Invitation and refusal
John said:
>
> It's not a question of blacklisting, but of taking no for an answer.
> If a woman didn't want to dance with me 10 minutes ago, or last week,
> or in November 1962, I assume she doesn't want to dance with me now.
I suppose I have less absolute settings. There are some women where
I'm pretty sure they don't like dancing with me at all. I might try
again in a year or two, I might not.
But most of the time, they do not say yes for any of a number of
reasons - like I listed before:
> The music, the floor, my mood, phase of the moon, how
> she dances; how her dancing is affected by the music, the floor, my
> mood, the phase of the moon...
It would be silly for me to interpret her past "no" as a current one.
The reason I reacted so strongly to the original suggestion was
because it sounded like bullying - "don't say no to anyone or we'll
boycott you". And I know that it has that effect on some women. Then
they say yes to a dance when they mean no, which is bad for everyone.
And if I never asked again, with every woman who had ever said no to
me, there would very little dancing happening. Including with many
women who I know want to dance me.
November 1962 was a long time ago. Maybe her feet aren't so sore now,
or the music has got better, or your dancing. Give it a shot.
Gary
