3999 Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:00:17 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
--- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM> escribis:
> Dear All:
>
> The difference in a word is "elegance". In Europe
> good taste. Nicely dressed people and beautiful
> settings. In the USA bad taste. Poorly dressed
> people .....
Let's face the truth: most people dancing the Tango
belong to the middle classes. Europeans and Latin
Americans who belong show their "class" without
compunction. Middle class American naives subscribe
to the American mythology's fiction that it is a
classless society, their taste being taught by
marketing drives....
Lucia
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:37:48 -0500
From: Jeff Gaynor <jjg@JQHOME.NET>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
Lucia wrote:
> --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM> escribis:
>
>
>
>Let's face the truth: most people dancing the Tango
>belong to the middle classes.
>
[Just gotta delurk on this one.] Yes, because that's the vast majority
of the population, which is a good thing. Exports (tango is an export)
tend to show up as fads and status symbols for this class. Some have
more sticking power than others. Doesn't make it any less fun or
enjoyable, does it? A lot of imports get popular precisely because they
are so wonderful.
>Europeans and Latin
>Americans who belong show their "class" without
>compunction. Middle class American naives subscribe
>to the American mythology's fiction that it is a
>classless society,
>
It is classless vis-a-vis the European sense of inherited nobility: Tell
us you are the Duke of X and we'll shrug you off. Not so in other
countries where you are nobility no matter how wretched your finances.
What we are actually taught is that one's class is determined by money.
High class = rich, low class = poor. This works because by and large
Americans have a very homogeneous (mass) culture and the totally boorish
Texas oil baron is every bit as high class as the weirdo pop megastar,
neither of whom are "classy" in any reasonable sense. Odd, but it has
worked well for a largely immigrant country with no historical cultural
base. The mythology pertains to how easily one may move upwards and
great stock is put on the self-made millionaire even though this is a
vanishingly small percentage of the population.
>their taste being taught by
>marketing drives....
>
>
Sure and they all know it, too. That is the function of companies in
most folk's estimate, to supply us with new fashions and toys. If we all
buy into it, then what? Enunciating a truth is not a criticism. The
criticism is that it is wasteful and invents wants, causing the less
fortunate to squander their monies.
Cheers,
Jeff
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:11:27 -0800
From: Kat <hellkat_13@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
I'm always floored by the pretention and irony of
somebody saying a person or group isn't "classy"
enough to dance tango. To me, tango is like the Jay
Gatsby of dances. it's a self-made man, who's charm
is in no small part dependent on it's seedy roots.
Putting on a tuxedo and slicking back your hair won't
make you a good dancer, working hard, listening to the
music, and having a soul will. The last time I
checked, that wasn't dependent on class, nationality,
or dress code.
Don't get me wrong, it's fun to dress up and make
something that could have been simply charming
completely hypnotic. But to count the worth of an
event based on the trimmings of the attendees or the
location seems like you're either in it for the eye
candy or the elitism more than the dancing. i gave
that crap up with ballet.
Kat
--- Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR> wrote:
> --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM> escribis:
>
> > Dear All:
> >
> > The difference in a word is "elegance". In Europe
> > good taste. Nicely dressed people and beautiful
> > settings. In the USA bad taste. Poorly dressed
> > people .....
>
> Let's face the truth: most people dancing the Tango
> belong to the middle classes. Europeans and Latin
> Americans who belong show their "class" without
> compunction. Middle class American naives subscribe
> to the American mythology's fiction that it is a
> classless society, their taste being taught by
> marketing drives....
>
> Lucia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
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Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:40:33 -0600
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
Kat wrote:
>I'm always floored by the pretention and irony of
>somebody saying a person or group isn't "classy"
>enough to dance tango. To me, tango is like the Jay
>Gatsby of dances. it's a self-made man, who's charm
>is in no small part dependent on it's seedy roots.
>Putting on a tuxedo and slicking back your hair won't
>make you a good dancer, working hard, listening to the
>music, and having a soul will. The last time I
>checked, that wasn't dependent on class, nationality,
>or dress code.
>
Hear, hear. I tell my students that tango is a working
person's dance all the time.
>Don't get me wrong, it's fun to dress up and make
>something that could have been simply charming
>completely hypnotic. But to count the worth of an
>event based on the trimmings of the attendees or the
>location seems like you're either in it for the eye
>candy or the elitism more than the dancing. i gave
>that crap up with ballet.
>
I would say that no one can deny where they come from, but in the
old days, people did dress according to their aspiration.
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:07:53 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
It's beyond me how cannot you SEE! that MAKING A SHOW
for wooing the opposite sex is at the core of Tango
(and Life!) and this includes DRESS to IMPRESS!
Lucia
--- "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
escribis:
> Kat wrote:
>
> >I'm always floored by the pretention and irony of
> >somebody saying a person or group isn't "classy"
> >enough to dance tango. To me, tango is like the
> Jay
> >Gatsby of dances. it's a self-made man, who's
> charm
> >is in no small part dependent on it's seedy roots.
> >Putting on a tuxedo and slicking back your hair
> won't
> >make you a good dancer, working hard, listening to
> the
> >music, and having a soul will. The last time I
> >checked, that wasn't dependent on class,
> nationality,
> >or dress code.
> >
> Hear, hear. I tell my students that tango is a
> working
> person's dance all the time.
>
> >Don't get me wrong, it's fun to dress up and make
> >something that could have been simply charming
> >completely hypnotic. But to count the worth of an
> >event based on the trimmings of the attendees or
> the
> >location seems like you're either in it for the eye
> >candy or the elitism more than the dancing. i gave
> >that crap up with ballet.
> >
> I would say that no one can deny where they come
> from, but in the
> old days, people did dress according to their
> aspiration.
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:16:41 -0600
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
Lucia wrote:
>It's beyond me how cannot you SEE! that MAKING A SHOW
>for wooing the opposite sex is at the core of Tango
>(and Life!) and this includes DRESS to IMPRESS!
>
>
A compadre wears the clothes that reflect his beliefs about himself
and his place in the world. It turns out elegant because he personifies
and embodies elegance and he moves through a world of elegance.
Bums wear clothes that reflect their beliefs about themselves and
their place in the world. It turns out slovenly because that is the
world they live in.
Making a show isn't the same as embodying the aspects that attract
the opposite sex. I can wear $3,000 suits, $1,000 shoes and have
perfectly manicured fingernails, or I can wear all black, but that won't
fool anybody, because I am a silk shirt and chinos man.
But reread my post: "in the old days, people did dress according to
their aspiration." I'll also add that people today dress according to
their aspirations as well. But the aspitrations are different.
> --- "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
>escribió:
>
>
>
>>Kat wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm always floored by the pretention and irony of
>>>somebody saying a person or group isn't "classy"
>>>enough to dance tango. To me, tango is like the
>>>
>>>
>>Jay
>>
>>
>>>Gatsby of dances. it's a self-made man, who's
>>>
>>>
>>charm
>>
>>
>>>is in no small part dependent on it's seedy roots.
>>>Putting on a tuxedo and slicking back your hair
>>>
>>>
>>won't
>>
>>
>>>make you a good dancer, working hard, listening to
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>music, and having a soul will. The last time I
>>>checked, that wasn't dependent on class,
>>>
>>>
>>nationality,
>>
>>
>>>or dress code.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Hear, hear. I tell my students that tango is a
>>working
>>person's dance all the time.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Don't get me wrong, it's fun to dress up and make
>>>something that could have been simply charming
>>>completely hypnotic. But to count the worth of an
>>>event based on the trimmings of the attendees or
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>location seems like you're either in it for the eye
>>>candy or the elitism more than the dancing. i gave
>>>that crap up with ballet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I would say that no one can deny where they come
>>from, but in the
>>old days, people did dress according to their
>>aspiration.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>>Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
>>Tango-A rather than to
>>Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
>>subscribe to Tango-A,
>>send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
>>LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:29:26 -0800
From: Kat <hellkat_13@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
Maybe it's simply an issue of what each of us finds
impressive. I find sincerity and charisma impressive.
My carpenter boyfriend is pretty uncomfortable in a
suit, but looks better in a pair of carharts or
leather pants and two days of stubble than damn near
any man alive. My drag queen ex-boyfriend looks
better in a dress than I do. Whether courting or
dancing, I am most attracted to a person who is
unabashedly themselves. My only caveat to that is
that they be relatively clean and not smell funny. It
takes all types to make up the world. If tango is
life, I think it should reflect that. I certainly
wouldn't bother to stick around if it was just suits
and fashion police.
--- Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR> wrote:
> It's beyond me how cannot you SEE! that MAKING A
> SHOW
> for wooing the opposite sex is at the core of Tango
> (and Life!) and this includes DRESS to IMPRESS!
>
> Lucia
>
> --- "Christopher L. Everett"
> <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
> escribis:
>
> > Kat wrote:
> >
> > >I'm always floored by the pretention and irony of
> > >somebody saying a person or group isn't "classy"
> > >enough to dance tango. To me, tango is like the
> > Jay
> > >Gatsby of dances. it's a self-made man, who's
> > charm
> > >is in no small part dependent on it's seedy
> roots.
> > >Putting on a tuxedo and slicking back your hair
> > won't
> > >make you a good dancer, working hard, listening
> to
> > the
> > >music, and having a soul will. The last time I
> > >checked, that wasn't dependent on class,
> > nationality,
> > >or dress code.
> > >
> > Hear, hear. I tell my students that tango is a
> > working
> > person's dance all the time.
> >
> > >Don't get me wrong, it's fun to dress up and make
> > >something that could have been simply charming
> > >completely hypnotic. But to count the worth of
> an
> > >event based on the trimmings of the attendees or
> > the
> > >location seems like you're either in it for the
> eye
> > >candy or the elitism more than the dancing. i
> gave
> > >that crap up with ballet.
> > >
> > I would say that no one can deny where they come
> > from, but in the
> > old days, people did dress according to their
> > aspiration.
> >
> >
>
> > Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> > Tango-A rather than to
> > Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> > subscribe to Tango-A,
> > send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> > LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:43:15 -0800
From: Rain 4est <bailartangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
> It's beyond me how cannot you SEE! that MAKING A SHOW
> for wooing the opposite sex is at the core of Tango
> (and Life!) and this includes DRESS to IMPRESS!
.
Someone told me, that the women is the picture & the man is the frame
in the dance. Doesn't sound right, Tango is too much a shared experience...
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:03:31 -0800
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
--- Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR> wrote:
> It's beyond me how cannot you SEE! that MAKING A
SHOW
> for wooing the opposite sex is at the core of Tango
> (and Life!) and this includes DRESS to IMPRESS!
I guess you haven't seen how "young folks today" dress
to impress the sex of interest to them.
Guess I'm getting old,
Marisa
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 16:11:27 -0500
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
Sincerity and charisma are very good things to have. A fair measure of youth
and beauty are also good assets with which to impress.... However, a good
attempt at dressing up to go out helps a lot too. Tango is not like contra
dance, In a contra dance the more simple or even ridiculous your attire, the
more you can fit in. I don't think this works very well in tango. Maybe it's
just my taste, but I think that guys in sweaty t-shirts, baggy shorts and
birkenstock sandals look extremely ridiculous in and even incongruous at a
milonga. Likewise the women in the long cotton dresses, thick socks and
tennis shoes... I don't propose a fashion police or some codified tango
dress code. There are many ways and styles to dress well as there are styles
and ways to dance tango well.... I think it's a sign of respect to clean up
and dress up to go to a milonga.
Manuel
>From: Kat <hellkat_13@YAHOO.COM>
>Reply-To: Kat <hellkat_13@YAHOO.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:29:26 -0800
>
>Maybe it's simply an issue of what each of us finds
>impressive. I find sincerity and charisma impressive.
> My carpenter boyfriend is pretty uncomfortable in a
>suit, but looks better in a pair of carharts or
>leather pants and two days of stubble than damn near
>any man alive. My drag queen ex-boyfriend looks
>better in a dress than I do. Whether courting or
>dancing, I am most attracted to a person who is
>unabashedly themselves. My only caveat to that is
>that they be relatively clean and not smell funny. It
>takes all types to make up the world. If tango is
>life, I think it should reflect that. I certainly
>wouldn't bother to stick around if it was just suits
>and fashion police.
>
>
>--- Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR> wrote:
>
> > It's beyond me how cannot you SEE! that MAKING A
> > SHOW
> > for wooing the opposite sex is at the core of Tango
> > (and Life!) and this includes DRESS to IMPRESS!
> >
> > Lucia
> >
> > --- "Christopher L. Everett"
> > <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
> > escribis:
> >
> > > Kat wrote:
> > >
> > > >I'm always floored by the pretention and irony of
> > > >somebody saying a person or group isn't "classy"
> > > >enough to dance tango. To me, tango is like the
> > > Jay
> > > >Gatsby of dances. it's a self-made man, who's
> > > charm
> > > >is in no small part dependent on it's seedy
> > roots.
> > > >Putting on a tuxedo and slicking back your hair
> > > won't
> > > >make you a good dancer, working hard, listening
> > to
> > > the
> > > >music, and having a soul will. The last time I
> > > >checked, that wasn't dependent on class,
> > > nationality,
> > > >or dress code.
> > > >
> > > Hear, hear. I tell my students that tango is a
> > > working
> > > person's dance all the time.
> > >
> > > >Don't get me wrong, it's fun to dress up and make
> > > >something that could have been simply charming
> > > >completely hypnotic. But to count the worth of
> > an
> > > >event based on the trimmings of the attendees or
> > > the
> > > >location seems like you're either in it for the
> > eye
> > > >candy or the elitism more than the dancing. i
> > gave
> > > >that crap up with ballet.
> > > >
> > > I would say that no one can deny where they come
> > > from, but in the
> > > old days, people did dress according to their
> > > aspiration.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> > > Tango-A rather than to
> > > Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> > > subscribe to Tango-A,
> > > send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> > > LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> > Tango-A rather than to
> > Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> > subscribe to Tango-A,
> > send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> > LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
>Just $16.99/mo. or less.
>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:29:19 -0800
From: Rain 4est <bailartangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
@ Contra dances, women tend to wear floral printed dresses & skirts,
although, anything pretty much goes. men in skirts, sarongs, birkenstocks,
barefeet, organic type outfits. overall, i'd say women tend to be more attunded
to fashion? my women friends, always ask: "what do women wear there" ??
there, being a new environment for them. jokingly, i usually say: plunging
necklines & short twirly skirts ;o) then tell them the real thing. i've never had
a guy ask me that.
Yahoo! Shopping
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Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:14:57 -1200
From: Michael Ditkoff <tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Is today's tango a dance of the middle classes?
Rain 4est wrote:
Someone told me, that the women is the picture & the man is
the frame in the dance. Doesn't sound right, Tango is too
much a shared experience...
It is right. The man makes the woman look good; the woman
makes the man look good. The man can't make himself look
good at the expense of the woman, e.g. leading a difficult
figure the woman can't follow.
Michael Ditkoff
Going to NY this weekend to celebrate my birthday, the same
day as Gardel's.
