1385 It's the Leader's fault!!!!!
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:09:13 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: It's the Leader's fault!!!!!
I want to add something to the concept that if a mistake is made, it's always the leader's fault, never the follower. I disagree that it is never the follower's fault. There are really times that a mistake is really the follower's fault especially if she is a beginner. However, the leader needs to take responsibility for her mistake. It's a better social skill then placing blame especially if a leader has romantic intentions. Besides, the leader may find a way to help her follow better by leading a little more carefully, a little slower or a little more precisely then he normally needs to lead especially when they are approaching the point where she previously made her mistake. This might be called a non-verbal way of teaching at a milonga.
I'm always learning or inventing new figures or moves. I develop and perfect them on paper, in my head and at practicas before trying them at a milonga. I find ways to lead these new figures and moves in a clear and concise manner especially when they are unusual. A new or unusual move needs to be learned by a follower. And she can learn it easily if his lead is extra clear and extra precise.This is another example of non-verbal teaching at a milonga.
Non-verbal teaching needs to be non-disruptive to the follower and other dancers. However, unusual moves often surprise a follower when she is led through one her first time regardless of how flawlessly he leads and how flawlessly she follows. This surprise can distract her from from the music. So surprises and unusual moves should be done sparingly. A surprise or two during a dance is often tolerable especially if the leader led well. One needs to keep in mind the fact that the less experienced a follower is, the more surprises she is going to encounter when dancing with more experienced and good leaders. Surprises are a part of the spice of life. And of tango.
Comments?
Warm Regards
Tango Guy
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:05:00 -0500
From: Bibi Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: It's the Leader's fault!!!!!
Tango Guy mentioned that "the leader needs to take responsibility ..."
I don't wish to argue if it is the follower's fault or not, but I agree that
the leader should take the responsibility, much like the captain of the ship
taking the responsibility. Now that I begin to learn to lead and begin to
see the entire picture of the dance, I believe in this theory even more; I
apologize to my partner-follower if I ever mislead him/her.
But...
"It's a better social skill then placing blame especially if a leader has
romantic intentions."
I am sorry that Tango Guy and I will remain opposite fundamentally on the
issue whether tango has anything to do with romance. It is a better social
skills to do whatever necessary *regardless* if there is any romantic
intentions. However, it is pointless to expound further at the risk of
wasting the time of other readers. :-)
Bibi
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 13:25:02 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: It's the Leader's fault!!!!!
Dear Bibi,
Please read my e-mail more carefully. I believe you misunderstood it. But, yes, you and I will probably always disagree about the subject of Romance and Tango. However, I don't consider this an "Argument." Rather, it is a discussion between two mentally competent adults.
Smiles
Tango Guy
Bibi Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
Tango Guy mentioned that "the leader needs to take responsibility ..."
I don't wish to argue if it is the follower's fault or not, but I agree that
the leader should take the responsibility, much like the captain of the ship
taking the responsibility. Now that I begin to learn to lead and begin to
see the entire picture of the dance, I believe in this theory even more; I
apologize to my partner-follower if I ever mislead him/her.
But...
"It's a better social skill then placing blame especially if a leader has
romantic intentions."
I am sorry that Tango Guy and I will remain opposite fundamentally on the
issue whether tango has anything to do with romance. It is a better social
skills to do whatever necessary *regardless* if there is any romantic
intentions. However, it is pointless to expound further at the risk of
wasting the time of other readers. :-)
Bibi
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 03:07:35 +0200
From: "Kohlhaas, Bernhard" <bernhard.kohlhaas@SAP.COM>
Subject: Re: It's the Leader's fault!!!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tango Guy [mailto:tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: DSun, Jun 08, 2003 12:09 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [TANGO-L] It's the Leader's fault!!!!!
>
>
> I want to add something to the concept that if a mistake is
> made, it's always the leader's fault, never the follower. I
> disagree that it is never the follower's fault. There are
> really times that a mistake is really the follower's fault
> especially if she is a beginner.
[...]
Hello,
of course you are correct in stating that both leader and follower
may have contributed to a problem, each of course in varying degrees for
that particular situation and their respective responsibilities in the dance.
Nevertheless the statement "It's always the leader's fault."
is still true. It's not always correct in a literal sense,
but it is always true. Here's an aspect that hasn't been
explored yet in this thread and tries to prove that point:
The question this statement is supposed to answer usually is
"Whose fault is it, who is to blame for the mistake?"
This shouldn't be a topic for exploration during a milonga of
course, so the statement "It's always the leader's fault" through
its gross inaccuracy also says "It doesn't matter whose fault it
was, that's of no relevance here".
I remember once occurence where I was dancing with a woman I had never
danced with before. The dancing was enjoyable for both of us and
in our 2nd or 3rd dance, some slight misstep happened for which she
apologized with a quick "Sorry" to which I replied with a tongue in
cheek comment "It's always the leader's fault anyway".
Her response was "No that's not true of course" to which I responded
with "Well perhaps sometimes it's less the leader's fault than other times."
We both had a good laugh out of this and I found how useful of a statement
this is at least if it is taken in the manner that I just described.
Bernhard
Mountain View, CA
