The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks


5216 The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks	ARTICLE INDEX
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:17:07 -0400 From: "Fantasia Sorenson" <bichonheels@gmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: "Tango-L List" <tango-l@mit.edu> <b0a530950710041117g29011499h8f351dc6a1d8987d@mail.gmail.com> I loved Darlene's post. (Thanks, Darlene!) I found Darlene's observation, that the average American man dislikes tango music, a revelation. I never thought of that. But it stopped me in my tracks. It sounds all too plausible. I think that explanation from Darlene is more plausible than another possibility she mentioned. Darlene said, '...this is the harsh reality of our societal existence: to "make tango more attractive to men" we just need to keep as many attractive females around.' That made me think of the various tricks and strategies we women trot out for getting dances. For better or worse, the most popular are: Strategy #1: Be as pretty as possible. Strategy #2: Dance as well as possible. Strategy #3: Invite men instead of waiting for invitations. Darlene, as far as tango having attractive females around, I think we already have this one sewn up. Have you ever seen so many gorgeous, compliant women in any one place as are present at any given milonga on any given night in any given city? Tango will NOT be more attractive to men if there are more attractive women. There are ALREADY more attractive women available than men could possibly... ahh... consume. The only thing that could make it even MORE attractive is if we did it topless, I guess. I don't advocate that. (Although I can't say that I condemn it; um, it isn't like it never ever happened...) If attractive women what would bring men in, then surely we would have seen an Oklahoma-Land-Rush horde of men crashing into all of the milongas worldwide a long time ago. The men haven't done that. There has to be something else impeding them since the milongas are not lacking for attractive women. We also rely on Strategy #2. But let's face it. All of us have danced with a great dancer at some point, and how did we do? Not too bad probably. We really can adapt well to a lot. Eventually we all figure out that dance expertise is no insurance policy for getting dances. There really is an enormous number of women who can dance well. An enormous number of women who are pretty, and an enormous number of women who dance well. Still not reeling theme in? Next, there is... Strategy #3. When those benighted fools (aka Men Who Don't Realize What Pretty and Great Dancers We Are) don't ask us, well, we just take matters into our own hands and ask them ourselves. That'll do it. We're liberated. We're egalitarian. (And as pretty and as good a dancer as anybody else, dnit.) We would RATHER be invited, but one less-than-optimum dance experience is better than slinking out of a milonga not having danced even once, right? We usually don't talk out loud about what the consequences of that are. First, the men we invite will probably never come back and invite us unprompted, since we've categorized ourselves as pests. Then the only way to keep dancing is just to continue to be pesky. Some do that. Apparently it works. Is it fun? Another consequence we women usually don't mention out loud is that, since the man we invited was going to dance with someone else had we not intervened, in effect we robbed one of our sisters of a dance. Usually we think the men are at fault for ignoring us. How many dances do you think you have missed, girls, because another one of us deflected an invitation you were going to receive? It happens. Trust me. Well, I don't think we are going to make tango more attractive to American men. It's been around for a long time now. It's just always going to be a jungle. Fan Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:20:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu> I find men not dancing at the milongas after a while when they realize that they do not know how to dance and the expectations are high. Many men try practicas but usually better women dancers do not go to practicas (they may think they do not need them - wrong) to help develop those men who really want to learn to dance so they do not grow and eventually drop off. Mind you, given comparable backgrounds it takes much longer to develop a good male dancer than does a female, in my view. So, go to practicas, dance generously with those men who want to learn, give them constructive feedback, and soon you will have more men to dance with at the milongas. I think it is way more difficult to become a good male tango dancer than female one, given their traditional tango roles; although, when both dancers are good, it is the female usually who shines, which is just fine with me. =================================== seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal =================================== Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:59:41 -0600 From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu> On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Fantasia Sorenson wrote: > ... > That made me think of the various tricks and strategies we women > trot out > for getting dances. For better or worse, the most popular are: > > Strategy #1: Be as pretty as possible. > Strategy #2: Dance as well as possible. > Strategy #3: Invite men instead of waiting for invitations. I have to disagree about #2. Dance as well as possible so that your dances are as good as possible. But, it isn't necessarily the strategy to get more dances. In fact the better followers often get fewer dances as the Intermediate guys become intimidated! You miss the single most important strategy: Have a great Personality: fun, laughing, pleasurable, attractive. If you have that, you don't need any of the other strategies. Tom Stermitz Denver, CO 80207 Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:12:36 +0000 From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu> I agree with Tom. The single most important strategy: Be Happy - SMILE - and make eye contact. However, another strategy that works is to position yourself strategically. Don't sit in a corner. Be near the normal flow of traffic to and from the bathrooms or water fountain or bar or entrance. Stand up once in awhile and move around. Smile, and make eye contact. And I disagree with a previous poster that said that once a woman asks a man to dance, she has doomed herself to never be asked by him in the future. I disagree completely. I can tell you from my own personal experience that it sometimes works exactly the opposite. In the case that happened to me, I had no idea that she was such a pleasure to dance with. Sometimes you can't tell by watching when she's dancing with someone else. J TangoMoments.com Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. https://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 08:57:24 +0900 From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: "Fantasia Sorenson" <bichonheels@gmail.com>, "Tango-L List" <tango-l@mit.edu> > > An enormous number of women who are pretty, and an enormous number of > women > who dance well. Still not reeling theme in? Next, there is... > > We usually don't talk out loud about what the consequences of that are. > First, the men we invite will probably never come back and invite us > unprompted, since we've categorized ourselves as pests. So, whatever we do we're damned, Fantasia? maybe try salsa instead, you mean? which according to my salsa dancing friends works like a singles bar and only takles a day or so to learn? any better ideas? Astrid Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 21:41:11 EDT From: TangoSherwin@aol.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: bichonheels@gmail.com Cc: tango-l@mit.edu I think what turns many guys off is not the music but the too many women who think they are too beautiful or too good to dance with one of the plain joes. The worst ones are the ones that turn a guy down claiming they are resting and then instantly pop up and start dancing with a younger or better looking guy. See what's new at https://www.aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 21:51:15 -0400 From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: <TangoSherwin@aol.com>, <bichonheels@gmail.com> Cc: Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>, tango-l@mit.edu On top of that, women sit together and spend so much time talking they give the impression they would rather talk than dance. That's their prerogative after all, milonga means gathering. It's just difficult to figure out if they want to dance. Daniel Trenner once said it's rude to intrude on a woman talking with her friends because it puts her on the spot to decide to dance -- or abandon her friend(s) in mid-sentence. Michael Washington, DC I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks I think what turns many guys off is not the music but the too many women who think they are too beautiful or too good to dance with one of the plain joes. The worst ones are the ones that turn a guy down claiming they are resting and then instantly pop up and start dancing with a younger or better looking guy. Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:49:41 -0700 From: "El Mundo del Tango" <mail@elmundodeltango.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> Cc: tango-l@mit.edu I disagree with Daniel Trenner.(I am going to hell!!) There is nothing rude about asking someone to dance in a place where and at a time when people gather for that purposse, conversation going on or not. Their prerogative is, of course, to accept or not an invitation to dance >from whomever, whenever. But to think the person inviting is rude...??? That is rude!! Gabriel ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks > On top of that, women sit together and spend so much time talking they > give the impression they would rather talk than dance. That's their > prerogative after all, milonga means gathering. It's just difficult to > figure out if they want to dance. Daniel Trenner once said it's rude to > intrude on a woman talking with her friends because it puts her on the > spot to decide to dance -- or abandon her friend(s) in mid-sentence. > > Michael > Washington, DC > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <TangoSherwin@aol.com> > To: <bichonheels@gmail.com> > Cc: <tango-l@mit.edu> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks > > > I think what turns many guys off is not the music but the too many women > who > think they are too beautiful or too good to dance with one of the plain > joes. > The worst ones are the ones that turn a guy down claiming they are resting > and > then instantly pop up and start dancing with a younger or better looking > guy. > > Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:36:22 -0500 From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> Cc: tangosherwin@aol.com, bichonheels@gmail.com, tango-l@mit.edu <cff24c340710042136l3fed71dcu195a7d53fc0d5f41@mail.gmail.com> On 10/4/07, Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> wrote: > > On top of that, women sit together and spend so much time talking they > give the impression they would rather talk than dance. That's their > prerogative after all, milonga means gathering. It's just difficult to > figure out if they want to dance. Daniel Trenner once said it's rude to > intrude on a woman talking with her friends because it puts her on the spot > to decide to dance -- or abandon her friend(s) in mid-sentence. > > Michael > Washington, DC > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango A lot of these problems would be lessened if the cabeceo were used more outside Buenos Aires. This prevents men from being embarrassed about approaching a woman and being refused a dance. It protects women from the social obligation of dancing with someone who asks you but with whom you do not want to dance. It allows women to invite men to dance. Ron ----- Original Message ----- > From: <TangoSherwin@aol.com> > To: <bichonheels@gmail.com> > Cc: <tango-l@mit.edu> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks > > > I think what turns many guys off is not the music but the too many women > who > think they are too beautiful or too good to dance with one of the plain > joes. > The worst ones are the ones that turn a guy down claiming they are resting > and > then instantly pop up and start dancing with a younger or better looking > guy. > > > Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:17:36 -0700 (PDT) From: musette fan <musettefan@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: Tango Society of Central Illinois <tango.society@gmail.com>, Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> Cc: tangosherwin@aol.com, bichonheels@gmail.com, tango-l@mit.edu Thank you Ron. As a woman who strongly believes in the civility created by the use of the cabaceo, I was preparing quite the response to these issues, but you said it much more succinctly! Terri --- Tango Society of Central Illinois <tango.society@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/4/07, Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> wrote: > > > > On top of that, women sit together and spend so much time talking they > > give the impression they would rather talk than dance. That's their > > prerogative after all, milonga means gathering. It's just difficult to > > figure out if they want to dance. Daniel Trenner once said it's rude to > > intrude on a woman talking with her friends because it puts her on the spot > > to decide to dance -- or abandon her friend(s) in mid-sentence. > > > > Michael > > Washington, DC > > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > > > A lot of these problems would be lessened if the cabeceo were used more > outside Buenos Aires. > > This prevents men from being embarrassed about approaching a woman and being > refused a dance. > > It protects women from the social obligation of dancing with someone who > asks you but with whom you do not want to dance. > > It allows women to invite men to dance. > > Ron > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <TangoSherwin@aol.com> > > To: <bichonheels@gmail.com> > > Cc: <tango-l@mit.edu> > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks > > > > > > I think what turns many guys off is not the music but the too many women > > who > > think they are too beautiful or too good to dance with one of the plain > > joes. > > The worst ones are the ones that turn a guy down claiming they are resting > > and > > then instantly pop up and start dancing with a younger or better looking > > guy. > > > > > > > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:59:59 +1000 From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu> <EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0151416A4A@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com> As my wife and I both dance I get to see this issue from both sides. Remember it is generally no easier for women than men at a Milonga and generally if there is an oversupply of women as is often the case it is a lot harder for them. So you really have to respect them if they don't want to dance with you. Having said that, it is a social dance and a little kindness goes a long way mujeres :-). After initially really resenting the cabaceo in my brief and only stint in Argentina I must say I ended up liking it a lot. I was really down on it until my wife pointed out that it was just a lovely means to allow the woman to choose who she wants to dance with. For instance, in Australia, if you go up to a follower and they want to turn you down for a dance usually they give you some sorry excuse like they have sore feet or need to rest. So in Argentina you avoid all that and furthermore once you get someone to smile and nod at you then you start to feel really special actually. Already you feel like you have shared something and she has chosen you and something great is about to start. I don't want to make it sound like some perfect solution because there are all sorts of cabaceo disasters and difficulties, but when it works it does seem to work beautifully. However I could not imagine doing it in Australia (and I imagine the rest of the world is pretty much the same), it! would probably just be ridiculous and forced out of context. Victor Bennetts -----Original Message----- From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of musette fan Sent: Friday, 5 October 2007 4:18 PM To: Tango Society of Central Illinois; Michael Cc: tangosherwin@aol.com; bichonheels@gmail.com; tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks Thank you Ron. As a woman who strongly believes in the civility created by the use of the cabaceo, I was preparing quite the response to these issues, but you said it much more succinctly! Terri --- Tango Society of Central Illinois <tango.society@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/4/07, Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> wrote: > > > > On top of that, women sit together and spend so much time talking they > > give the impression they would rather talk than dance. That's their > > prerogative after all, milonga means gathering. It's just difficult to > > figure out if they want to dance. Daniel Trenner once said it's rude to > > intrude on a woman talking with her friends because it puts her on the spot > > to decide to dance -- or abandon her friend(s) in mid-sentence. > > > > Michael > > Washington, DC > > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > > > A lot of these problems would be lessened if the cabeceo were used more > outside Buenos Aires. > > This prevents men from being embarrassed about approaching a woman and being > refused a dance. > > It protects women from the social obligation of dancing with someone who > asks you but with whom you do not want to dance. > > It allows women to invite men to dance. > > Ron > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <TangoSherwin@aol.com> > > To: <bichonheels@gmail.com> > > Cc: <tango-l@mit.edu> > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks > > > > > > I think what turns many guys off is not the music but the too many women > > who > > think they are too beautiful or too good to dance with one of the plain > > joes. > > The worst ones are the ones that turn a guy down claiming they are resting > > and > > then instantly pop up and start dancing with a younger or better looking > > guy. > > > > > > > Need a vacation? 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INFOSYS***** End of Disclaimer ****INFOSYS* Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:11 +0100 (BST) From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Gabriel wrote > There is nothing rude about asking someone to dance in a place where > and at a time when people gather for that purposse, conversation going > on or not. Different people gather in a milonga for different purposes. You're free to assume everyone gathering in a milonga is there for the purpose of dancing... but to invite on such a basis is indeed rude. -- Chris Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:28:35 -0400 From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com> Cc: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu> Hey, sometimes our feet are sore and we really need to rest! Have you ever worn tango shoes? ;) This is a bigger problem in the tango world than in other dance styles, because of the difference in customs. In other dances I can say to the guy "when I'm done resting, I'll come over and ask you." Obviously in tango this is mostly not done. So, if you really do have sore feet, how do you reconnect without violating the code? Another problem -- I do want to dance with a guy, but not a milonga, I would rather dance a tango. I say, "Can we not dance to this, but dance to a tango instead?" They walk away, and don't come back, because they feel rejected. Can I go over to them and ask them to dance the tango? I don't think so. How can I reconnect in that situation as well. Inquiring minds want to know. C PS - those who say you shouldn't dance after you have turned someone down, are absolutely right. It's very socially rude. I think some women are getting sloppy with this because of the tanda structure. Turning down one dance means sitting out the rest of the whole tanda, so they throw away the rule. Too bad. Victor Bennetts wrote: > As my wife and I both dance I get to see this issue from both sides. Remember it is generally no easier for women than men at a Milonga and generally if there is an oversupply of women as is often the case it is a lot harder for them. So you really have to respect them if they don't want to dance with you. Having said that, it is a social dance and a little kindness goes a long way mujeres :-). > > After initially really resenting the cabaceo in my brief and only stint in Argentina I must say I ended up liking it a lot. I was really down on it until my wife pointed out that it was just a lovely means to allow the woman to choose who she wants to dance with. For instance, in Australia, if you go up to a follower and they want to turn you down for a dance usually they give you some sorry excuse like they have sore feet or need to rest. So in Argentina you avoid all that and furthermore once you get someone to smile and nod at you then you start to feel really special actually. Already you feel like you have shared something and she has chosen you and something great is about to start. I don't want to make it sound like some perfect solution because there are all sorts of cabaceo disasters and difficulties, but when it works it does seem to work beautifully. However I could not imagine doing it in Australia (and I imagine the rest of the world is pretty much the same), i t! > would probably just be ridiculous and forced out of context. > > Victor Bennetts > > -----Original Message----- > -- Carol Ruth Shepherd Arborlaw PLC Ann Arbor MI USA 734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f https://arborlaw.com protection ? registration ? liability ? enforcement Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:44 -0500 From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks Carol raises an interesting point about not wanting to dance milonga with someone but wanting to dance tango. I also find that there are some partners with whom I would prefer to dance with only to specific music, be the distinction tango/vals/milonga or D'Arienzo/Di Sarli/Pugliese. I think this underscores the desirability of playing music in tandas. I agree with Ron that a lot of the problems would be eliminated through the use of the cabeceo. I am completely baffled by people finding the cabeceo difficult to use outside Buenos Aires. I have used it with great regularity in many different cities. In addition, my coworkers and I frequently use a variation of it to get a group together for lunch. Steve (de Tejas) https://www.tejastango.com/ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT) From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: shepherd@arborlaw.com, "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu> Carol: If you feel that you can't "go over and ask", by all means be sure to look at the man when he is available. If and when he returns your gaze you can motion towards the dance floor, or raise your eyebrows in question (Are we going to dance now?) Does this sound like a certain non verbal means of communication associated with Argentine Tango? Esablishing eye contact is something that is widely done. Even if it is not done "religiously" where you dance, it should be understood. My goodness, I arrange dances with people I know from across the room with this method at the country western place I go to, and those folks have never heard of the cabeceo. You could "prime the pump" and increase the chance of this working by telling the guys something like, "I'll watch for you later on" when you decline his invitation. But, I think it is really too bad that you think you can't go over and ask them, given the situation. Personally, I think it's acceptable (or should be) in the US and other places. Sometimes we try too hard to create an authentic milonga experience when we aren't authentic Argentines. Let's make it mostly about the music and the dance. Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net> wrote: Hey, sometimes our feet are sore and we really need to rest! Have you ever worn tango shoes? ;) This is a bigger problem in the tango world than in other dance styles, because of the difference in customs. In other dances I can say to the guy "when I'm done resting, I'll come over and ask you." Obviously in tango this is mostly not done. So, if you really do have sore feet, how do you reconnect without violating the code? Another problem -- I do want to dance with a guy, but not a milonga, I would rather dance a tango. I say, "Can we not dance to this, but dance to a tango instead?" They walk away, and don't come back, because they feel rejected. Can I go over to them and ask them to dance the tango? I don't think so. How can I reconnect in that situation as well. Inquiring minds want to know. C PS - those who say you shouldn't dance after you have turned someone down, are absolutely right. It's very socially rude. I think some women are getting sloppy with this because of the tanda structure. Turning down one dance means sitting out the rest of the whole tanda, so they throw away the rule. Too bad. Victor Bennetts wrote: > As my wife and I both dance I get to see this issue from both sides. Remember it is generally no easier for women than men at a Milonga and generally if there is an oversupply of women as is often the case it is a lot harder for them. So you really have to respect them if they don't want to dance with you. Having said that, it is a social dance and a little kindness goes a long way mujeres :-). > > After initially really resenting the cabaceo in my brief and only stint in Argentina I must say I ended up liking it a lot. I was really down on it until my wife pointed out that it was just a lovely means to allow the woman to choose who she wants to dance with. For instance, in Australia, if you go up to a follower and they want to turn you down for a dance usually they give you some sorry excuse like they have sore feet or need to rest. So in Argentina you avoid all that and furthermore once you get someone to smile and nod at you then you start to feel really special actually. Already you feel like you have shared something and she has chosen you and something great is about to start. I don't want to make it sound like some perfect solution because there are all sorts of cabaceo disasters and difficulties, but when it works it does seem to work beautifully. However I could not imagine doing it in Australia (and I imagine the rest of the world is pretty much the same), i t! > would probably just be ridiculous and forced out of context. > > Victor Bennetts > > -----Original Message----- > -- Carol Ruth Shepherd Arborlaw PLC Ann Arbor MI USA 734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f https://arborlaw.com protection ? registration ? liability ? enforcement Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 15:21:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu> --- Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net> wrote: > Hey, sometimes our feet are sore and we really need to > rest! Have you > ever worn tango shoes? ;) Agreed! At least around here, folks know that I'm up on my feet for 6-8 hours just before I go to a milonga, so they know I mean it when I say I'm resting. No point in giving them a bad dance because I'm tired. > Another problem -- I do want to dance with a guy, but not > a milonga, I would rather dance a tango. I say, "Can we not dance to this, but dance to a tango instead?" They walk away, and don't come back, because they feel rejected. Can I go over to them and ask them to dance the tango? I don't think so. How can I reconnect in that situation as well. Try being more specific - the next tango, the next DiSarli, the next vals. If he agrees to the "date" but doesn't make it, then he's the one being rude. If it's a small milonga, you can usually check with the deejay. If you're cognizant about whether you can dance milonga with him, then you should be able to recognize whether he's better with slower tempo or faster tempo music. And if it's at a regular milonga, then see if you can make it a habit. A friend of mine unintentionally did that to me. After awhile I grew accustomed to waiting for him when Pugliese started playing. Like Pavlov's dog, I suppose. Trini de Pittsburgh PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance! https://patangos.home.comcast.net/ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:29:44 -0700 (PDT) From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu> More like all of the folks we keep hearing about in Buenos Aires. It takes lots of time to get to know people well enough that you know they want to dance with you from across the room. Or without even looking at them. As a guess, most of the US tango communities are no where near as old as those in BA. Anyone want to venture a guess as to how many of the people who use the cabeceo in BA are complete strangers to each other, vs how many people have at least danced with each other before? "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote: --- Carol Shepherd wrote: > Hey, sometimes our feet are sore and we really need to > rest! Have you > ever worn tango shoes? ;) Agreed! At least around here, folks know that I'm up on my feet for 6-8 hours just before I go to a milonga, so they know I mean it when I say I'm resting. No point in giving them a bad dance because I'm tired. > Another problem -- I do want to dance with a guy, but not > a milonga, I would rather dance a tango. I say, "Can we not dance to this, but dance to a tango instead?" They walk away, and don't come back, because they feel rejected. Can I go over to them and ask them to dance the tango? I don't think so. How can I reconnect in that situation as well. Try being more specific - the next tango, the next DiSarli, the next vals. If he agrees to the "date" but doesn't make it, then he's the one being rude. If it's a small milonga, you can usually check with the deejay. If you're cognizant about whether you can dance milonga with him, then you should be able to recognize whether he's better with slower tempo or faster tempo music. And if it's at a regular milonga, then see if you can make it a habit. A friend of mine unintentionally did that to me. After awhile I grew accustomed to waiting for him when Pugliese started playing. Like Pavlov's dog, I suppose. Trini de Pittsburgh PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance! https://patangos.home.comcast.net/ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:58:06 +1000 From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu> <EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0151416A5B@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com> Something I don't think anyone has mentioned about Argentina is that once you have someone you want to dance with actually on the floor and the first dance is done(a difficult and stressful endeavour), the whole spell of not being able to talk to them is broken and it is quite acceptable (indeed almost compulsory) to let them know that you really love the way they dance to Biagi, for instance, and you would treasure such a dance with them the way you treasure every moment of your life ... etc etc :-) Argentinians really make an art form of compliments from what I observed. It is a bit shallow I know but I was chuffed on the rare occasions between dances when followers said things to me like 'I was looking at you for ages, why did it take you so long to look in my direction?'. I don't know if these sort of things are sincere, but you certainly remember that follower and are pretty quick to single them out for a dance at the next milonga. So now I have let the secret out about! how easily manipulated men are with our fragile egos, you can probably see that it is pretty easy to patch up a rejection if you really want to dance with someone. Just tell them how great their vals is. I mean, you want to dance a vals with them because you do think they do that one well, right? And I will put money on them asking you for the next vals tanda that comes up :-) Victor Bennetts -----Original Message----- From: Carol Shepherd [mailto:arborlaw@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2007 12:29 AM To: Victor Bennetts Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks Hey, sometimes our feet are sore and we really need to rest! Have you ever worn tango shoes? ;) This is a bigger problem in the tango world than in other dance styles, because of the difference in customs. In other dances I can say to the guy "when I'm done resting, I'll come over and ask you." Obviously in tango this is mostly not done. So, if you really do have sore feet, how do you reconnect without violating the code? Another problem -- I do want to dance with a guy, but not a milonga, I would rather dance a tango. I say, "Can we not dance to this, but dance to a tango instead?" They walk away, and don't come back, because they feel rejected. Can I go over to them and ask them to dance the tango? I don't think so. How can I reconnect in that situation as well. Inquiring minds want to know. C PS - those who say you shouldn't dance after you have turned someone down, are absolutely right. It's very socially rude. I think some women are getting sloppy with this because of the tanda structure. Turning down one dance means sitting out the rest of the whole tanda, so they throw away the rule. Too bad. Victor Bennetts wrote: > As my wife and I both dance I get to see this issue from both sides. Remember it is generally no easier for women than men at a Milonga and generally if there is an oversupply of women as is often the case it is a lot harder for them. So you really have to respect them if they don't want to dance with you. Having said that, it is a social dance and a little kindness goes a long way mujeres :-). > > After initially really resenting the cabaceo in my brief and only stint in Argentina I must say I ended up liking it a lot. I was really down on it until my wife pointed out that it was just a lovely means to allow the woman to choose who she wants to dance with. For instance, in Australia, if you go up to a follower and they want to turn you down for a dance usually they give you some sorry excuse like they have sore feet or need to rest. So in Argentina you avoid all that and furthermore once you get someone to smile and nod at you then you start to feel really special actually. Already you feel like you have shared something and she has chosen you and something great is about to start. I don't want to make it sound like some perfect solution because there are all sorts of cabaceo disasters and difficulties, but when it works it does seem to work beautifully. However I could not imagine doing it in Australia (and I imagine the rest of the world is pretty much the same), i t! > would probably just be ridiculous and forced out of context. > > Victor Bennetts > > -----Original Message----- > -- Carol Ruth Shepherd Arborlaw PLC Ann Arbor MI USA 734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f https://arborlaw.com protection * registration * liability * enforcement ************** CAUTION - Disclaimer ************* This e-mail contains PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by e-mail and delete the original message. Further, you are not to copy, disclose, or distribute this e-mail or its contents to any other person and any such actions are unlawful. This e-mail may contain viruses. Infosys has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, but is not liable for any damage you may sustain as a result of any virus in this e-mail. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening the e-mail or attachment. Infosys reserves the right to monitor and review the content of all messages sent to or from this e-mail address. Messages sent to or from this e-mail address may be stored on the Infosys e-mail system. INFOSYS***** End of Disclaimer ****INFOSYS* Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:52:29 -0400 From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks To: <tango-l@mit.edu> Cc: Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> Carol asked: Another problem -- I do want to dance with a guy, but not a milonga, I would rather dance a tango. I say, "Can we not dance to this, but dance to a tango instead?" They walk away, and don't come back, because they feel rejected. Can I go over to them and ask them to dance the tango? I don't think so. How can I reconnect in that situation as well. I don't see anything wrong in saying you'd rather dance tango. To me, that's not rejection; that's a rain check. I don't force anybody to dance milonga but when a woman says "It's too fast. I'm not good at it," I just say "it's not as fast as you think. Step on the beat, not every note and you'll come out alive at the end." More often than not, the woman will dance a tanda of milonga and when it's over, the usual response is "I danced milonga!!" One woman told me she only dances milonga with her husband. That's not rejection. The door is always open for vals and tango. Michael Washington, DC Is it still summer here? Continue to Thanks for the warm reception to my first post on \| ARTICLE INDEX

5216 The Jungle and Women's Tricky Tricks