1429  Lets suppose

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:19:43 EDT
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lets suppose

At one of our Milongas a discussion came up about the amount of dance floor
space I use for dancing, since the dance floor available to us is huge and the
amount of people coming to the milonga is small. I personally don't like
seeing one couple getting lost out there in all that available space and not really
being social with the rest of the crowd. In fact one person doesn't like
making the floor smaller, because now he has to think of the other people around
him on the dance floor. One more reason I cut the size of the floor. Now the
people have to learn floor craft and improvisation. They now have to learn to
think on their feet, and change what their doing according the floor space
available to them.

Now, his argument was, in Bs As they dance the way that they do because of
necessity. There is no open space on a BsAs Dance floor, so Milonguero style was
created.

But what is the people of BsAs did have as much floor space available to them
like a lot of milongas in the United States.
How would the people of BsAs dance then?
Would more people in BsAs be dancing a Forever tango style of tango?
Your comments Please!

Tim Pogros

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:23:34 -0700
From: Andrew <andrew@ORCADIGITAL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lets suppose

I think it's likely there are a variety of reasons people dance like they do
in BsAs. I tend to agree in part with the suggestion that in BsAs they
dance small because they have a small amount of room. I think if instead of
dancing shoulder to shoulder they were dancing with a few people's width
between them, the dance would likely have evolved differently. However, the
dance
has evolved in the way it has, and the traditional manner of dancing doesn't
involve using so much space .. traditional 'milonguero' argentine tango does
use a small space on the floor.

That's not to say that people should stick to that, I'm not a strict
traditionalist,
and I think that the language tango provides is a wonderful place to move
out
from. Dancing a more traditional dance in a somewhat larger amount of space
(more backwards/sideways steps, longer steps, etc) versus dancing forever
tango style, however, is a bigger jump. The people who dance only trad-
itional milonguero style also are often, I think, more of normal in their
athletic
ability, balance, flexibility, etc .. the repertoire of moves doesn't take a
lot of
advanced work in overrotation, counterbalance in colgadas, etc .. it's stuff
that everyday working people can learn, and then slowly get better and
better at,
until they indeed become fantastic at this more limited, less athletically
challenging style and set of movements. That's part of the charm of
traditional
Argentine Tango - not that it's any easier, but that it's open and available
to
everyone. "Forever Tango" style dancing involves a much larger degree of
athletecism .. the dancers are more like "dancers"
(modern/ballet/jazz/performing)
.. they tend to be pretty low-fat, athletically fit, excellent balance,
flexible .. this
is not at all to dissuade from this style, whatever you call it .. nuevo
tango, tango
fantasia, etc .. I love dancing using a lot of colgadas, sacadas, ganchos,
leg-wraps, etc .. but it's not something I think would have evolved on the
social dance floor in buenos aires as the popular, common style of dancing -
it's something I think that might have been a jumping-off point that some
people use in their practicas, or for shows, etc .. and indeed is .. and
probably would be something only a few people would be able to do physically
and be interested in spending the amount of time required to get good at the
physical demands of the style. Anyhow, that's my take. :) I also would
want to stress that I'm not saying I think of nuevo tango as being better,
or
more advanced, it's just different, and requires a different kind of work,
and
has certain physical demands that make it less easily available to some
people.
To get excellent at milonguero style dancing also takes a long time, and
serious
investment, so I don't want to minimize the effort and amazing skill
devotees of
straight milonguero style put together.

Another thing I
think often happens is that when people bring that style onto the floor,
they ignore the most important part of milonguero social dancing - that it's
social dancing, not just a partner dance by yourselves, and thus there are
other people on the floor to consider. Making tango fantasia be a social
dance to work with others on the floor - regardless of how much room there
is - requires floorcraft to be integrated with it, and floorcraft is much
harder to integrate with such a large-movement style of dancing - completely
doable, but it takes a lot of conscious effort a lot of people either don't
make
or have a hard time making, or occasionally forget to make (I can certainly
fall into the last category).

Andrew
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: [TANGO-L] Lets suppose

> At one of our Milongas a discussion came up about the amount of dance

floor

> space I use for dancing, since the dance floor available to us is huge and

the

> amount of people coming to the milonga is small. I personally don't like
> seeing one couple getting lost out there in all that available space and

not really

> being social with the rest of the crowd. In fact one person doesn't like
> making the floor smaller, because now he has to think of the other people

around

> him on the dance floor. One more reason I cut the size of the floor. Now

the

> people have to learn floor craft and improvisation. They now have to learn

to

> think on their feet, and change what their doing according the floor space
> available to them.
>
> Now, his argument was, in Bs As they dance the way that they do because of
> necessity. There is no open space on a BsAs Dance floor, so Milonguero

style was

> created.
>
> But what is the people of BsAs did have as much floor space available to

them

> like a lot of milongas in the United States.
> How would the people of BsAs dance then?
> Would more people in BsAs be dancing a Forever tango style of tango?
> Your comments Please!
>
> Tim Pogros
>
>
>