4460 Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:12:23 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: "Tango-L" <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
Tom Stermitz wrote:
For example, in Buenos Aires this year I felt there were more good
men than good women. But, in general the level in BA has dropped
dramatically from 10 or 5 years ago, even in the good afternoon
milongas where you do have many excellent dancers.>
>From a woman's point of view, I disagree with your first point. There are
very few good male dancers in the milongas in BsAs. I am speaking
specifically about the milongas near downtown where best male dancers over
60 dance from 6-11pm. There are only a handful of milongas where you can
find them. Over the past ten years I have danced with many of them. It's
one thing to rate them by observation. Dancing with them in another thing
entirely.
Salon Canning on Sunday evening used to be one of the best places for good
dancing. It has the best floor in Buenos Aires and attracts a regular
following every week. I was there last Sunday for two hours. The place
holds 400. During most tandas there are as many as 100 couples on the
floor. It's impossible to dance because the level of the men's dancing has
gone down. The music was awful as well. I saw only four men whom I
consider to be excellent dancers. The others were just going through the
motions.
Yesterday I went to Lo de Celia. Her place holds around 200, but there were
no more than 12 couples on the floor during any tanda. We had one great
tanda of music after another for dancing. I spoke with other women who said
they had a great time as I did. Dany's music and an open floor for
dancing--what more could you ask for? I was in heaven dancing with Ismael,
Emilio, Jorge, and Hugo. When I wasn't dancing, I was enjoying the music
and watching the dancers. There were no more than 15 men in the milonga,
but more of them were good dancers than I saw Sunday in Canning. The best
part was we could really dance. During a tanda with Hugo Belvisi we danced
a complete rotation around the floor in one vals. That is impossible in
most milongas today. I hadn't danced with Ismael Heljalil in over two
years. We danced a tanda of Calo and I closed my eyes, something I never do
when the floor is packed.
I agree with Tom that the level of dancing has declined in BsAs. It's
depressing to see the level of dancing deteriorating month to month. There
are so very few milongueros who still dance regularly. They are in poor
health and dying. The milongas will be empty without them.
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:44:08 -0400
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hi Janis,
I am curious as to why level of dancing is declining in Buenos Aires - I
thought more people than ever are taking tango lessons and travelling to
Argentine to improve their craft. Also, I would hear of the extinction of
the older milongueros, why hasn't the second generation or younger men
stepped up to take their place?
Caroline
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:07:38 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
10 years ago the milongas still had a lof 40 & 50 year dancers.
Things have grown a lot in Buenos Aires, which means that the
milongas are dominated with 1-10 year dancers. Some of them are quite
good, but the average is no longer what it was in the "good old days".
On Jul 7, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Caroline Polack wrote:
> Hi Janis,
>
> I am curious as to why level of dancing is declining in Buenos
> Aires - I thought more people than ever are taking tango lessons
> and travelling to Argentine to improve their craft. Also, I would
> hear of the extinction of the older milongueros, why hasn't the
> second generation or younger men stepped up to take their place?
>
> Caroline
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:23:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hi there friends.
I have been seeing this "change " for the last years , reasons are several but there is still a "new wave" that has not come yet.
Actually at the milongas, you should have been seeing people born from the 70`s , but they are not there , also the ones from the 80`s . Maybe, some young kids from the 90`s are getting interested in tango , but as a source for a job or an income, not as social dancing.
Tango is not taught at buenos aires public schools, there is all a discussion about this, and an organization "Tango en la escuela ( tango on schools)" that is pushing to have a law to make tango a compulsory subject into the syllabus of the schools. This means that the teachers first, will have to recognize and apply this subject.
Do you think kids at primary schools will be happy if they are enforced to learn tango dancing ?? I am not sure.
I think it is good some activity made at primary and secondary schools, voluntary, non compulsor. There was an excellent woman, Alba Ferretti, unfortunately she died, that taught tango on schools with his partner Mauricio Soifer, he is still making the teaching .
Also Olga Bessio and her tango for young people activity.
All the festivals, tournaments.... are good, the city of buenos aires is plastered with posters with tango ... and nothing happens afterwards , at least nothing inmediately perceived as a new "wave"
well, is an open matter, I am not sure what will happen , I do hope young people got interested, I have a compromise from my 15 year old son to have some "lessons about that tango thing" on a couple of years :)
warm regards
alberto gesualdi
buenos aires
Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org> escribi?:
10 years ago the milongas still had a lof 40 & 50 year dancers.
Things have grown a lot in Buenos Aires, which means that the
milongas are dominated with 1-10 year dancers. Some of them are quite
good, but the average is no longer what it was in the "good old days".
On Jul 7, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Caroline Polack wrote:
> Hi Janis,
>
> I am curious as to why level of dancing is declining in Buenos
> Aires - I thought more people than ever are taking tango lessons
> and travelling to Argentine to improve their craft. Also, I would
> hear of the extinction of the older milongueros, why hasn't the
> second generation or younger men stepped up to take their place?
>
> Caroline
Hor?scopos, Salud y belleza, Chistes, Consejos de amor.
El contenido m?s divertido para tu celular est? en
Yahoo! M?vil
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:45:28 -1200
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar>, tango-l@mit.edu
Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net
Alberto wrote:
> Tango is not taught at buenos aires public schools,
there is all a discussion about this, and an organization
"Tango en la escuela ( tango on schools)" that is pushing to
have a law to make tango a compulsory subject into the
syllabus of the schools.
> Do you think kids at primary schools will be happy if
they are enforced to learn tango dancing ?? I am not sure.
In New York City, a dance teacher convinced the school
system to introduce ballroom dancing in the schools. The
results are showcased in the movie "Hot MAD Ballroom."
Students are taught American tango, Swing, Fox Trot,
Merengue, Rumba, and I think Waltz. The program has grown
since its inception. There is now a yearly competition. In
the movie, the principal of the reigning school desperately
wanted to keep the dancing trophy in the school's trophy
case.
The classes teach more than dance. They teach etiquette.
Students with behavioral problems change from the dance
classes. It helped in New York. It could help in Buenos
Aires.
If the law passes, I hope they don't teach the kids volcadas
and colgadas. I'm sure the list will supply a tsunami of
suggestions of what and how to teach and music to use.
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Wish my junior high school had dance lessons when I was
there. Square dancing was a poor substitute in elementary
school.
Going to NY tomorrow for the almost all night milonga. Going
back to Washington on the 3:45 AM bus instead of the 7.
Thank goodness the subway runs all night.
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:01:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Jones <rwjones52@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
This discussion reminds me of something I read once by Rainer Maria Rilke.
By way of background, I have always been fascinated by Paris in the mid-Bell Epoque period circa 1905 or so. For years I dreamt of how cool it must have been to have lived in Paris during that time.
Then I read some letters or something by Rainer Maria Rilke. He was writing them from Paris during that period, and he was complaining about how Paris just wasn't the same anymore. It wasn't like it was during the 1890s.
I had to laugh and realize that no matter what, some people will always be dissatisfied with how things are right now, and evoke some previous era as a much better time.
Buenos Aires 2006 is what we have right now. Enjoy it. Ten years from now it just won't be the same.
Rick Jones
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 15:35:11 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
On the other hand...
The growth of tango in BA means that a lot more "normal" people are
doing tango, not just drug dealers, lounge-lizards, show-dancers. The
secretaries get off work at 5:00 and bring their dance shoes, then go
home at 10:00. You have clubs like Canning filled with regular social
dancers. The few foreigners in attendance are often as good or better
than many of the locals. A lot of them fit in pretty well, because
they are decent social dancers.
10 years ago the BA milongas could be difficult for a new guy. The
old guys with their dagger eyebrows, glaring at anyone who disturbed
the dance floor. There is a lot more tolerance now.
I've also noticed that the missing age-group is people in their 30s &
40s. I guess they have families and jobs and travel.
On Jul 7, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Caroline Polack wrote:
> Hi Janis,
>
> I am curious as to why level of dancing is declining in Buenos
> Aires - I thought more people than ever are taking tango lessons
> and travelling to Argentine to improve their craft. Also, I would
> hear of the extinction of the older milongueros, why hasn't the
> second generation or younger men stepped up to take their place?
>
> Caroline
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 03:13:17 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Level of dancing in Buenos Aires milongas
To: "Tango-L" <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
Caroline Polack wrote:
Hi Janis,
I am curious as to why level of dancing is declining in Buenos Aires - I
thought more people than ever are taking tango lessons and travelling to
Argentine to improve their craft. Also, I would hear of the extinction of
the older milongueros, why hasn't the second generation or younger men
stepped up to take their place?
People of all ages in Buenos Aires are enthusiastic about learning to dance
tango these days. The problem is they aren't being taught a social style of
tango. They are learning to memorize choreography for stage. The majority
of those who teach don't know how to dance well socially. Check the roster
of any tango festival in the world and you'll find Argentines who are
primarily stage performers who teach.
Many young male dancers were first trained in folklorico. They quickly
learn tango to get work on stage or to teach. They aren't interested in
dancing socially. It's all about doing choreography at one of the hundreds
of restaurants with a tango show. They can't make a living dancing tango
socially.
And then there's the current trend in nuevo tango and electronic music which
isn't contributing anything to the development of good social dancing in the
milongas of Buenos Aires.
Good social dancing in the milongas of Buenos Aires is difficult to find
these days.
