913 "Like they mean it..."
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:12:55 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Like they mean it..."
Greetings Luda,
> Any woman can follow a good
> lead. I just despair over dancing with wet noodle
> leads. It feels like dancing with men who don't have
> any backbone, so they can hold on to a woman like they
> mean it.
Whoa there! Don't confuse a strong lead for a good lead!
"Following" is not a conscripted activity. It is dancing
the follower's ROLE, which is aided by a certain degree of
freedom. A follower who doesn't know her role or is not
interested in 'contributing' can manage if her leader puts
a firm clamp on her. A follower who is musical and expressive
will not appreciate being clamped into a frame. The best
leaders and followers need the least force, and the clarity
of leads is a combined result not only of their level of technical
understanding but also of their adaptation to the particular
needs of each follower (including choice of 'material' and
the timing with which they lead it).
When you accept a dance with a good leader, the texture of
your following and your contribution to the frame sets the
leader's parameters. He has to sense what you can do and
want to do. [NOT something one learns in tango class, BTW]
The way you establish the embrace before even one step is
just as important at what happens next. It indicates what
you are offering the leader for him to work with.
Forcing & pushing... a poor way to start! You show what
you need - how much time, firmness, and eventually energy
and precision - he supplies it as best he can.
Followers are like fine bowed instruments...
Squeeze them too tight and the richness of tone is lost! ;-)
Cheers!
Frank - Mpls.
--
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
612-625-6441
Department of Neuroscience
6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church Street SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Department of Veterinary Pathobiology
205 Veterinary Science
1971 Commonwealth Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:47:31 -0700
From: Linda Allred <lindallred@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: "Like they mean it..."
On Jan 2, Frank Williams wrote:
> Whoa there! Don't confuse a strong lead for a good lead! A follower who
is musical and expressive will not appreciate being clamped into a frame.
This is in reply to Luda's comment:
I just despair over dancing with wet noodle
> leads. It feels like dancing with men who don't have
> any backbone, so they can hold on to a woman like they mean it.
Frank, you have obviously not done lots of following. The "wet noodle"
syndrome is prevalent, and is indeed distressing to dance with. What Luda
is referring to is not to be confused with strong vs. good leading. It is
with presence of body and intent during the lead, of clarity and purpose
while leading. Limp arms, indecision, and lack of intent are a big problem
with many leaders. The experience of dancing with a man who has a solid
frame and who is not afraid to lead with the torso and with clarity and
decision is wonderful. I agree with Luda that it feels like "they can hold
on to a woman like they mean it." If you are going to lead, then do it with
decision! Don't be a wimp!
Linda
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:36:20 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: "Like they mean it..."
To some extent, I think this discussion is confusing clarity of intent
with firmness of embrace. A wet noodle cannot lead because it has no
intent. Neither can a dry noodle because it also has no intent, it is
simply stiff.
I think the qualities expected of a leader are better expressed in Linda
Allred comments:
>If you are going to lead, then do it with decision!
Leading the follower's movements requires a clarity of intent and
willingness to be present within oneself and for another. Sometimes
people come to Argentine tango without those qualities and must develop
them. Leaders who have not developed these qualities, lack knowledge of
the steps they are trying to execute, or lack confidence in themselves or
their partner are likely to present themselves as wet noodles...
Leading also requires sensitivity and flexibility. Without these skills,
the leader is less able to adjust to the follower's timing and movement
qualities and are unable to adjust to changing floor conditions. Sometimes
people come to Argentine tango without these qualities and must develop
them. Leaders who have not developed these qualities are likely to put a
firm clamp on their partners, which will prevent them from contributing to
the dance.
With best wishes for the New Year,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:40:30 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Like they mean it..."
Linda Allred wrote:
> Frank, you have obviously not done lots of following. The "wet noodle"
> syndrome is prevalent, and is indeed distressing to dance with.
I hear that when guys worry about their "wet noodles", it only makes the
problem worse! ;-)
...and I agree, for tango leaders, self confidence IS surely an asset.
Enjoy the music, Linda, Luda and all!
Frank - Mpls.
--
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
612-625-6441
Department of Neuroscience
6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church Street SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Department of Veterinary Pathobiology
205 Veterinary Science
1971 Commonwealth Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:05:52 -0800
From: JC Dill <tango@VO.CNCHOST.COM>
Subject: Re: "Like they mean it..."
At 02:36 PM 01/02/2003 -0600, Stephen Brown wrote:
>To some extent, I think this discussion is confusing clarity of intent
>with firmness of embrace. A wet noodle cannot lead because it has no
>intent.
Another problem aspect of the wet noodle syndrome is when the leader thinks
he is leading something, but due to his wet noodle frame he is giving
conflicting cues. Part of his body (often the hand that he thinks is most
important to "lead" the follower with) says "Do A", but the collapsing
frame leaves the follower feeling many other cues saying "Do B". This is
obviously no fun for the follower who now resorts to guesses to try to
follow, and who will be late in any movement due to the thinking time
required to try to figure out what is being cued and led. In order for the
lead to be clear, the frame has to be secure so that when the leader gives
a cue, all parts of his frame are giving a consistent message for the cue.
This problem is not unique to AT. It crops up in many forms of partner
dance, including those with less intimate and less firm frames (by nature)
than AT.
jc
