5410 Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of a
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:56:36 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of a
tanda
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
It's surprising how many men in the milongas turn around and walk the other
way when a tanda ends, leaving women on the floor. They either haven't
observed proper ballroom dance etiquette or are too lazy to accompany the
woman to the edge of the floor. Unfortunately, this isn't usually discussed
in classes; many teachers don't practice this themselves.
Men need to be reminded. I was amazed when I saw a friend of mine, who has
years of experience in the milongas, constantly leave women in the middle of
the floor at the end of a tanda. He seemed to be opting out for the
shortest distance to his table, rather than escorting a woman back to where
he met her on the floor. Often he was seated before the woman reached her
table. Last night the woman seated next to me returned alone practically
every tanda. That says something about her choice of partners.
There are gentlemen in Buenos Aires. It is common practice by milongueros
to hold the woman's upper arm or place their hand on her back while
escorting her to the edge of the floor. There is no handholding or hand on
her shoulder by the man unless he is seated with his partner.
As any milonguero will tell you, it isn't necessary to say "thank-you"
because you made a mutual agreement to dance together. If you danced to the
end of the tanda, mutual enjoyment is understood. Nothing needs to be said.
Janis
www.ToTango.net/milongueros.html
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:00:13 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
To: Tango-L <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
Now I don't know if this is just a UK thing but since I am at the moment watching more milongas then dancing them I may notice this more. It is that there is an almost audible popping sound at the end of the dance when partners seem to change polarity and repel the other away from them. It really is sometimes like watching people force themselves to be connected while the music plays and when it stops; like musical chairs they "pop" out of each others arms like it was some horrible ordeal they have been through.
I have personally made a point to enjoy the embrace a little longer and slow the whole thing down, this is though with a regular partners and not with complete strangers yet. I am talking about pausing and enjoying the fact that we have just spent time totally immersed in music and dance and not bursting away from each other and ruining the moment. A (strange) parallel I can draw would be my own habit of when watching a DVD in the evening before I heading to bed I make sure I turn the TV off at the end of the credits and then the DVD so that the last thing I remember and hear is the moving sound score during the credits and by not switching off the DVD first avoid being hit with some unforgivable TV show and thus ruining the still introspective atmosphere. Now don't judge me too much on this madness it does make some sense.
I was wondering if this magnetic repulsion (want of a better word, repulsion is a little too strong "repelation?") is something other people see and is actually the norm and more so am I with my alien attitude going to get a reputation as being clingy if I stay in the moment?
'Mash
London, UK
"Tango; sorry I thought it was a dance."
On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 03:56:36PM -0300, Janis Kenyon wrote:
> It's surprising how many men in the milongas turn around and walk the other
> way when a tanda ends, leaving women on the floor. They either haven't
> observed proper ballroom dance etiquette or are too lazy to accompany the
> woman to the edge of the floor. Unfortunately, this isn't usually discussed
> in classes; many teachers don't practice this themselves.
>
> Men need to be reminded. I was amazed when I saw a friend of mine, who has
> years of experience in the milongas, constantly leave women in the middle of
> the floor at the end of a tanda. He seemed to be opting out for the
> shortest distance to his table, rather than escorting a woman back to where
> he met her on the floor. Often he was seated before the woman reached her
> table. Last night the woman seated next to me returned alone practically
> every tanda. That says something about her choice of partners.
>
> There are gentlemen in Buenos Aires. It is common practice by milongueros
> to hold the woman's upper arm or place their hand on her back while
> escorting her to the edge of the floor. There is no handholding or hand on
> her shoulder by the man unless he is seated with his partner.
>
> As any milonguero will tell you, it isn't necessary to say "thank-you"
> because you made a mutual agreement to dance together. If you danced to the
> end of the tanda, mutual enjoyment is understood. Nothing needs to be said.
>
> Janis
> www.ToTango.net/milongueros.html
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:33:42 -0500
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
To: Tango List <tango-l@mit.edu>
Don't know what you are experiencing but here in MI there are less leads
than follows by a large ratio, so dancers are frequently snarfing up
their dance partner for the next tanda, while still on the floor. Less
common with the older folks than the college set.
Some observe the 'codigos' here but many people are very familiar within
their own small group and have their 2 or 3 preferences and do not
really dance around socially. They have their tandas all lined up.
This can unfortunately be very hard for a newcomer (or a latecomer) (or
a NNNNNN, where NNNNNN=more prevalent gender, if there is a handful or
more extra of one gender).
Sitting out two or more tandas is maybe de rigeur somewhere like BsAs
when you are an out-of-towner. But if you are in your own community and
you are not on the floor for 45 minutes it sure feels like you came out
for a night of dancing and got nothing but a lot of sitting in.
A plea for taking the follow back to the floor, and dancing around with
partners you haven't danced with in a while! :)
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE :)
'Mash wrote:
> Now I don't know if this is just a UK thing but since I am at the moment watching more milongas then dancing them I may notice this more. It is that there is an almost audible popping sound at the end of the dance when partners seem to change polarity and repel the other away from them. It really is sometimes like watching people force themselves to be connected while the music plays and when it stops; like musical chairs they "pop" out of each others arms like it was some horrible ordeal they have been through.
>
> I have personally made a point to enjoy the embrace a little longer and slow the whole thing down, this is though with a regular partners and not with complete strangers yet. I am talking about pausing and enjoying the fact that we have just spent time totally immersed in music and dance and not bursting away from each other and ruining the moment. A (strange) parallel I can draw would be my own habit of when watching a DVD in the evening before I heading to bed I make sure I turn the TV off at the end of the credits and then the DVD so that the last thing I remember and hear is the moving sound score during the credits and by not switching off the DVD first avoid being hit with some unforgivable TV show and thus ruining the still introspective atmosphere. Now don't judge me too much on this madness it does make some sense.
>
> I was wondering if this magnetic repulsion (want of a better word, repulsion is a little too strong "repelation?") is something other people see and is actually the norm and more so am I with my alien attitude going to get a reputation as being clingy if I stay in the moment?
>
> 'Mash
> London, UK
>
> "Tango; sorry I thought it was a dance."
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 03:56:36PM -0300, Janis Kenyon wrote:
>> It's surprising how many men in the milongas turn around and walk the other
>> way when a tanda ends, leaving women on the floor. They either haven't
>> observed proper ballroom dance etiquette or are too lazy to accompany the
>> woman to the edge of the floor. Unfortunately, this isn't usually discussed
>> in classes; many teachers don't practice this themselves.
>>
>> Men need to be reminded. I was amazed when I saw a friend of mine, who has
>> years of experience in the milongas, constantly leave women in the middle of
>> the floor at the end of a tanda. He seemed to be opting out for the
>> shortest distance to his table, rather than escorting a woman back to where
>> he met her on the floor. Often he was seated before the woman reached her
>> table. Last night the woman seated next to me returned alone practically
>> every tanda. That says something about her choice of partners.
>>
>> There are gentlemen in Buenos Aires. It is common practice by milongueros
>> to hold the woman's upper arm or place their hand on her back while
>> escorting her to the edge of the floor. There is no handholding or hand on
>> her shoulder by the man unless he is seated with his partner.
>>
>> As any milonguero will tell you, it isn't necessary to say "thank-you"
>> because you made a mutual agreement to dance together. If you danced to the
>> end of the tanda, mutual enjoyment is understood. Nothing needs to be said.
>>
>> Janis
>> www.ToTango.net/milongueros.html
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
Arborlaw - a legal blog for entrepreneurs and small business
https://arborlaw.com
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:00:32 -0600
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
To: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>, "Tango-L"
Speaking only from my personal experience, This happens because most
American (and perhaps European and Asian as well) women don't expect
the man to walk them back, and act a bit uncertain about the fellows
who do try to escort them back to their seats.
As a result, most men are quickly conditioned to drop their partner
right in the middle of the floor.
Christopher
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:56:36 -0300, "Janis Kenyon"
<Jantango@feedback.net.ar> said:
> It's surprising how many men in the milongas turn around and walk the
> other
> way when a tanda ends, leaving women on the floor. They either haven't
> observed proper ballroom dance etiquette or are too lazy to accompany the
> woman to the edge of the floor. Unfortunately, this isn't usually
> discussed
> in classes; many teachers don't practice this themselves.
>
> Men need to be reminded. I was amazed when I saw a friend of mine, who
> has
> years of experience in the milongas, constantly leave women in the middle
> of
> the floor at the end of a tanda. He seemed to be opting out for the
> shortest distance to his table, rather than escorting a woman back to
> where
> he met her on the floor. Often he was seated before the woman reached
> her
> table. Last night the woman seated next to me returned alone practically
> every tanda. That says something about her choice of partners.
>
> There are gentlemen in Buenos Aires. It is common practice by
> milongueros
> to hold the woman's upper arm or place their hand on her back while
> escorting her to the edge of the floor. There is no handholding or hand
> on
> her shoulder by the man unless he is seated with his partner.
>
> As any milonguero will tell you, it isn't necessary to say "thank-you"
> because you made a mutual agreement to dance together. If you danced to
> the
> end of the tanda, mutual enjoyment is understood. Nothing needs to be
> said.
>
> Janis
> www.ToTango.net/milongueros.html
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 10:43:56 -0500
From: buffmilonguera@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
To: tango-L@mit.edu
After reading Carol's e-mail, it sounds like MI is a lot like my tango
community. We generally don't wait for a tanda to end before changing
partners for the same reason - a shortage of leads. As our community
grows, it's changing a little. The shortage of leads is also one of the
reasons I have learned to lead. Too many women were were sitting too
long - including me :). Buffalo is a very friendly tango community -
everyone dances. The most experienced and best dancers always take time
to walk a beginner around the floor, and all the leads are very
conscious of who has or hasn't been dancing through out the evening.
When I visit other tango communities, I have noticed that this is not
always the case.
I don't like leaving a follower (or being left by a lead) in the middle
of the floor. When I do lead, I always bring my partner at least to the
edge of the dance floor near where she has been sitting. It's the rare
follower who will "snarf" a lead who is still on the floor (love that
word)...but I have seen it happen in other communities.
barbra
Have you joined the Buffalo Argentine Tango Society Yahoo! group yet?
It's easy, and the best way to make sure you know what we're doing and
what's going on with the Argentine tango in and around Buffalo......go
Society > follow the directions to join BATS_tango. Thanks!
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:41:35 -0500
From: buffmilonguera@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
To: tango-L@mit.edu
I love the word, "improvers". A handful of our more experienced leads
don't come to basics classes because they say they are not learning
anything new. Maybe I'll use your model. Another way we successfully
"mixed" experienced and brand new dancers worked out to be a lot of
fun. We had been asked to organize a demonstration and lesson before a
professional tango performance. We knew that the performance had sold
out - but we weren't prepared for the literally hundreds of people who
showed up early for the demonstration and lesson. After the
demonstration, about 100 folks actually participated in a lesson -
basically, I had them walk. Then folks just danced for about 20-30
minutes. Experienced dancers (leads and follows) who volunteered to
walk around the floor with the newbies all wore a red ribbon. The
audience was told that anyone with a red ribbon had already volunteered
to dance with them, so all they had to do was ask...it really worked.
Some of the volunteers did take the ribbon off to dance with a friend -
but they could then just pin the ribbon on again after that dance.
We are not yet at the point that men dance together very often at all.
If it does happen, it's in class, or just playing around at a milonga.
There are only 4-5 women leaders, and we dance with everyone.
I think our community's experience is probably fairly common. People
very often come to tango because they have seen a stage performance or
demonstration with a lot of "tricks," which is all they want to learn.
Eventually, some choose "close embrace", some like nuevo more - I am
perfectly willing to lead/follow either. For me, tango is easier to
learn in open embrace, and easier to lead in close embrace. I think
there may be some leads who dance nuevo because of the tricks which
they rely on too much but I have danced in both styles with some
fantastic dancers who "get" the music and some dancers who just don't.
In my experience, there isn't much correlation between "musicality" and
styles of tango.
and happy New Year to you and yours as well
b
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 17:12:50 -0300
From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I realize in the U.S. and maybe Europe the customs are different. Janis
was referring to Buenos Aires. Here we have shortages of leads as
well. It is no different. On a given night it seems like their are 20
women to every man. I have stopped going to certain milongas because
the ratio of women to men is almost to the point where it seems like a
"woman's milonga". In one milonga where the women sit separate from the
men, 3 sides of the floor were women.
In your communities you have "your women" and "men." In ours we not
only have "our women" we have tons of women who come here to dance.
Many more than men. How about this? A milonga that normally has 60
women and 40 men receives 2 tour groups - each has 15 women and 5 men.
So we now have 90 women and 50 men. This is not unusual.
Keeping this in mind, we still dance all 4 songs in a tanda. Men do not
walk off the floor after the second song because "followers are
waiting." They dance the whole tanda with the woman they invited. The
only reason to walk off the floor for either a man or a woman is when
either is very rude or there is a gross mismatch of skills that make it
impossible to dance.
When the tanda is over, the man walks the woman back to her table. He
should not leave her in the middle of the floor. It is like a date
dumping you at the curb and expecting you to walk to your front door
alone. A gentleman guides you back to your table.
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:16:37 -0600
From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
Deby Novitz wrote:
>>Keeping this in mind, we still dance all 4 songs in a tanda. Men do not
walk off the floor after the second song because "followers are waiting."
They dance the whole tanda with the woman they invited.<<
Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of
tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners.
I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:42:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
I almost exclusively use three-song tandas, sometimes even two songs per tanda if they are longer songs. I try not have a tanda last more than 9 minutes max.
===================================
seek, appreciate, and create beauty
this life is not a rehearsal
===================================
----- Original Message ----
From: "Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org" <Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 3:16:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
Deby Novitz wrote:
>>Keeping this in mind, we still dance all 4 songs in a tanda. Men do
not
walk off the floor after the second song because "followers are
waiting."
They dance the whole tanda with the woman they invited.<<
Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of
tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners.
I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:43:35 -0500
From: buffmilonguera@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of
tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners.
I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach.
that's where it is heading in Buffalo - I also "play out" the cortina
if I notice that a large number of dancers are new, esp. if I know that
they are already salsa, swing, etc. dancers. I understand that, to
some, it's heretical, but between tandas I play one song that seems
appropriate to this group of dancers. We are still a growing
community looking for new dancers, so I don't want someone to come to
try it and then go home thinking "all I did was watch." I would much
rather they went home saying, "I watched a lot before I tried it - and
I had a great time because there were a couple of songs I knew." Some
of the tango dancers don't like it - and some like the chance to do
some other dances they know.
In other communities I have noticed that an entire tanda of salsa is
played later in the evening and everyone seems to enjoy that -
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:51:31 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
Quick reply because I have guests, but I note the other repliers to this
thread seemed to agree and another even suggested 2 songs to a Tanda. I
have to disagree. The 4th song of a Tanda is almost always my best dance.
By then I'm in total synch with my partner, we're relaxed, we know what
each other can do and we can just enjoy the dance, the music and each other.
OK, maybe I should be there by the 3rd song but sometimes I'm not and I
hate to take my partner off the floor without having a perfect dance - I
mean, I really hate it. If it's not perfect, I just need one more.
PLEEEEEEASE.
Please don't tell me I'm selfish - I already know. But here we don't have
a major mismatch in genders.
Keith, HK
On Thu Jan 3 4:16 , Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org sent:
>Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of
>tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners.
>I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach.
>
>With best regards,
>Steve
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:44:42 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643C0D@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
I agree that with a new follower it can take four songs to adjust to each other's styles and generally the dances improve over the tanda. But with anyone I have danced with before, even for only one tanda at a previous milonga, in my experience any dance could be the best dance. In fact, in many cases it is often the first dance and the follower may then say 'that was great', which of course puts a curse on the next three dances ;-).
Victor Bennetts
Keith> The 4th song of a Tanda is almost always my best dance.
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Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:03:56 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643C0F@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
>>From what I observed in Argentina, many of the leaders who are in the outer circle know the songs so well that they can plan things to end their tanda at precisely the same place where they started. Hence very little escorting is required. The woman's seat is right there where they started, which of course assumes that they have walked up to the woman's seat to start the tanda - a requirement of the cabaceo.
I think walking the follower to the edge of the floor (not necessarily all the way back to their seat) is a minimum courtesy and I have not had any bad feedback on it in Australia.
Victor Bennetts
Christopher >Speaking only from my personal experience, This happens because most
>American (and perhaps European and Asian as well) women don't expect
>the man to walk them back, and act a bit uncertain about the fellows
>who do try to escort them back to their seats.
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Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 23:46:10 -0700
From: "David Hodgson" <DHodgson@TangoLabyrinth.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
To: "'Victor Bennetts'" <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>, "Tango L list"
Of course if you like the partner your dancing with you can also "Magickly"
finish exactly the furthest point away from where the Follow's chair was.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:04 PM
To: Tango-L
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of a
tanda
>>From what I observed in Argentina, many of the leaders who are in the outer
circle know the songs so well that they can plan things to end their tanda
at precisely the same place where they started. Hence very little escorting
is required. The woman's seat is right there where they started, which of
course assumes that they have walked up to the woman's seat to start the
tanda - a requirement of the cabaceo.
I think walking the follower to the edge of the floor (not necessarily all
the way back to their seat) is a minimum courtesy and I have not had any bad
feedback on it in Australia.
Victor Bennetts
Christopher >Speaking only from my personal experience, This happens because
most
>American (and perhaps European and Asian as well) women don't expect
>the man to walk them back, and act a bit uncertain about the fellows
>who do try to escort them back to their seats.
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any other person and any such actions are unlawful. This e-mail may contain
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Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:09:03 -0300 (ART)
From: Jerry Combs <jerrycombs40@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
I agree wholeheartedly. Often, I have had the distinct
impression that a North American woman whom I am
escorting back to her seat, especially if it is a long
way off, puts up a slight guard, as if this offering
of chivalry means something else.
Many N. American women have not enjoyed the experience
of gentlemanly manners, as do the Argentinian
women.
I say, re-train them and walk them back to their
seats!
Saludos,
Jerry
Yahoo! Encuentros.
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:21:34 -0500
From: rhink2@netscape.net
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I recall the time (perhaps 12 years ago) in my area (San Francisco) when there were no discernible tandas.? I should say there were no cortinas.? At that time most tangueros honored the multiple-dance custom, but it was not based on any style of music.
Given the gender imbalance at many milongas in the U.S., I'm beginning to think tanda-less milongas are not so bad.? It seems far worse to have many people, ususally ladies, who never get to dance the whole evening.
In the swing dance community, the rule is 1 dance and move on.? Even the custom of escorting one's partner is sacrificed in order to maximize mixing. I suspect this approach would never work in Argentina, but in the U.S. it might help achieve the goal of distributing the joy of tango more evenly.
Bob
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Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Leaving the floor
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
Stephen P Brown wrote:
> Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of
> tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners.
> I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach.
For London milongas, I made that switch about three years ago and the
general impression on myself and the organisers and dancers who've
commented is that it works. Elsewhere e.g. Berlin, where dancers are on
average much more experienced and girls don't greatly outnumber guys, I
play longer tandas. As a dancer, I prefer longer tandas.
buffmilonguera@aol.com wrote:
> I also "play out" the cortina if I notice that a large number of dancers
> are new .... between tandas I play one song that seems appropriate to
> this group of dancers.
A cortina (curtain) is for not dancing and an other-rhythm break is for
dancing. I think it is a bad idea to confuse the two. I'm glad I know
nowhere in Europe or BsAs that does that.
--
Chris
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:07:09 EST
From: Crrtango@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] leaving the floor
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Stephen Brown wrote:
< Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of
tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners.
I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach. >
Traditional tandas serve a good purpose in that they establish cycles of
slow or fast dancing interspersed with playful milongas and romantic waltzes.
After one good tanda cycle, one is prepared to start again. Although breaking the
cycle up into smaller increments may help rotation of partners it can make a
choppy flow to the evening just as too-long tandas tend to drag out the flow
and actually kill the mood.? I think once the beginners develop some skill and
finesse they appreciate the standard structure. I think short segments are
better for a practica than an actual milonga. It might be a question of balancing
out the needs of the beginners with the needs of the more advanced dancers.
As an advanced dancer I would not like a milonga of too-short tandas (although
three tangos followed by a couple of waltzes and milongas isn't too bad). When
I was running milongas at one of the schools where I taught, I used the
three-tango, two-milonga, two-waltz structure for the same reason as Stephen... to
get the students circulating, but at a larger Saturday-night milonga I would
play four or five tangos before changing. Part of the problem is that there are
more tangos than other types so you can use up your milongas and waltzes if
the tango cycles are too short.
As for playing out the cortina that wouldn't go over very well here. People
tend to get grumpy if the non-tango stuff stays on too long. One non-tango
break of salsa and swing is all we ever do here, often right after, or right
before the announcements and/or performance of the night. The notable exceptions
are the few alternative-music milongas that we have.
Cheers,
Charles
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Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:51:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
I don't know about otehr women, but I don't consider myself
as "having a seat". I do have a place for a drink or where
I stash my shoes, but I tend to wander around, sometimes in
search of a partner or visit with friends. I think this is
common in my neck of the woods. Perhaps this is one reason
N. American women do not expect to be escorted back to her
seat or off of the floor. By that time, they might miss
the next desirable partner. It seems that few people
actually wait to hear what the next tanda is before they
ask someone to dance.
A few thoughts,
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Jerry Combs <jerrycombs40@yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> I agree wholeheartedly. Often, I have had the distinct
> impression that a North American woman whom I am
> escorting back to her seat, especially if it is a long
> way off, puts up a slight guard, as if this offering
> of chivalry means something else.
> Many N. American women have not enjoyed the experience
> of gentlemanly manners, as do the Argentinian
> women.
> I say, re-train them and walk them back to their
> seats!
>
> Saludos,
> Jerry
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Encuentros.
>
> Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho m?s f?cil, prob? el nuevo
> Yahoo! Encuentros
> https://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration
>
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
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Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:56:05 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -- leaving the floor at the end of
a tanda
Sean here,
I have a different opinion than Trini on this. While it's
true that most N. American milongas that we attend don't
have reserved seating, I still prefer to escort a lady off
of the dance floor. I would be a bit taken aback, and
perhaps offended, if she wouldn't go along with me.
Sean
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:55:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] leaving the floor
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Stephen Brown wrote:
Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing
the length of tandas to three songs to promote/enable more
rotation between partners. I'm interested in opinions about
the desirablity of such an approach.
------
Sean again, I have an opinion about this approach...
I have to agree with Keith on this one. 3 Songs is rarely
enough to achieve that sublime 4th dance that keeps me
coming back. And when you do hit it at song 3, who in their
right mind would give it up?
My personal response to a milonga with 3 song tandas is to
dance two tandas with each follower. While the cortina
followed by a change in the orchestra is very disruptive,
it is still easier to get that great dance by the 5th or
6th song, rather than to start over from scratch. Of
course, that means that I dance with even fewer followers
than if the tandas were more traditional. And if the DJ
breaks from the T-T-V-T-T-M format, it gets even worse. I
will sit out the 3rd tango tanda, expecting vals or milonga
to follow. I would rather sit out than risk offending a
woman by dancing only one tanda with her on a night that I
dance two with everyone else.
Understandably, there is a lot of pressure on tango
organizers to sacrifice the best aspects of tango for the
sake of "community building". [Note that there is no need
to build a community in Bs. As., so they in particular
won't understand these compromises.] If you are in a small
community, then by all means, spend your first 5 or 10
years helping to build your community. We have all been
there. But eventually, you will have paid your dues and are
at risk of community-building-burnout. Then you have to
take care of yourself.
If you feel cheated by 3 song tandas, make the best of it,
and dance two tandas with the same partner. Think of it as
a bit of civil disobedience, a non-confrontational way to
make your point. When enough people feel as I do, (10% is
probably enough) the community builders will give up this
particular form of coercion, just to save their community.
Until then, accept the realities of the moment, but don?t
let people use you.
Sean
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 00:13 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] leaving the floor
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
Sean wrote:
> the T-T-V-T-T-M format
You surely cannot be saying USA DJs play in a fixed format???
Last week I danced two nights to a DJ from the USA and I'm glad to say no
such "format" was in evidence. He understood the music and for each tanda
chose whatever music best suited the moment.
--
Chris
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:20:29 -0500
From: buffmilonguera@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] leaving the floor
To: tango-L@mit.edu
thanks for everyone's comments on music, tandas, etc., all of it is
still fairly new to me - I do like the idea of a salsa or swing set
(maybe one of each, depending on the make-up - and tolerance :) - of
the crowd that night. And I get it - a cortina is a cortina is a
cortina - I will change my ways.......
and Miles, your suggestion that, in response to the gender imbalance,
women may want to to bring two pairs of shoes and learn to lead - that
was exactly my strategy and now I literally dance every and any dance I
want to : ) - it would be nice to see more women leading (and I think
that men might find that learning a little about following might help
improve their own dancing)
thanks for the feedback on the music, everyone
b
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Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:18:21 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] leaving the floor
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Why don't tango DJs, DJ like the other music DJs?
I understand the thinking behind setting a pattern so that people can rotate but more and more I think this is just making things more complicated and what I have witnessed so far, does little for the atmosphere.
The DJ's job in my mind is the most important. They are there to create, keep and lead the atmosphere to dance. Since the dawn of DJing the DJ chooses the music according to the response from the dancers. I really have a problem with this almost clinical Tango tanda whateveryoucallit. It is the pits seeing a dance floor full of intense couples dancing and then (cue tumbleweed) the whole thing is brought to a standstill as the tempo, style and music changes. There is part of me that thinks milongas should cater for the type of people rather then having this set musical rotation.
This talk of people sitting out. Personally I think that this should not be the job of the DJ but the job of the dancers themselves. This may sound harsh but a couple of things come to mind. Make friends, join a Tango class and go as a group. You can even plan your dance partners for the evening. Make yourself look available to dance and more so look like someone with whome someone would like to dance. Personally the ice queens on the side of the floor don't do much for me whether they are the best dancers there or not. I would rather dance with a bubbly smiling charismatic beginner and enjoy the evening. And the men, if you want to dance find the balance between looking like a lost kitten and someone with a lost kitten down the front of his pants.
I fully understand the limitations of my extremely low level of experience and I am not trying to pass judgement on something I know very little about. But there are times when I want to give up on Tango altogether as the world I see around it seems to be from another planet!?
Maybe I have got it all wrong and will through time merge into the understanding that everyone else appears to have. I am though not sure whether to look forward to it or fear it.
'Mash
London, UK
"Tango, a bit like eating lobster."
On Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 05:07:09PM -0500, Crrtango@aol.com wrote:
> Stephen Brown wrote:
>
> < Some of the djs in the United States have begun reducing the length of
> tandas to three songs to promote/enable more rotation between partners.
> I'm interested in opinions about the desirablity of such an approach. >
>
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:04:19 -0500
From: Don Klein <don@aymta.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga 101 -
To: tango-l@mit.edu, krasimir@krasimir.com
Well then, you can compare Gustavo y Giselle and Fernanda Ghi y Guillermo Merlo at Nora's Tango week <https://www.tangoweek.com/instructors.html>
don
Krasimir Stoyanov wrote:
> I can recommend two sources of real, tango-improving technique:
> One is the site www.tangoandchaos.org, the other are the videos from
> Fernanda Ghi and Guillermo Merlo - "Follower's technique" and "Salon Tango
> Technique". They are true gems in a see of stupid, combination oriented
> videos.
