1738  "Muscle memory" and other useful concepts withconfusing names

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:36:35 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: "Muscle memory" and other useful concepts withconfusing names

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>:

> Johnathan Thorton wrote:
>
> >One criticism I have of the pedagogy of social dance is that
> >the sensory input system is taken for granted and thus neglected.
> >I refer anyone interested to the "Inner Game of ___" books by
> >Gallwey, where ____ could be Tennis, Skiing, Music, or Golf for
> >examples of teaching that skillfully utilize the sensory and
> >motor systems.
>
> I cannot comment on other social dances, but I am not in complete
> agreement that the sensory input system is taken for granted and thus
> neglected in the teaching of tango. Many group lessons neglect the
> sensory input system, but not all do. Some teachers ask their students to
> observe their movement in mirrors. In addition, many of the best private
> lessons that I have taken focus exactly on improving skill through use of
> the sensory input system.

Stephen,

I believe you and I think it's developing increasingly. I've heard of some
teachers who include it more. I still think it's important to emphasize
though.

> One distinction between social dance and Tennis, Skiing and Golf is that
> the observation/feedback about the physical accomplishment are more easily
> made. The tennis ball is inside/outside the line. The Golf ball is down
> the middle of the fairway, to the right or to the left. Except for
> movements that can be observed in mirrors, dance is much more subjective.
> It is also potentially more emotionally laden.

I cited Gallwey's books because they are available, readable, and useful.
Actually, if I knew of something comparable discussing Contact
Improvisation I would have preferred that. Gallwey has a lot of good
approaches to developing body awareness in movement and this is what I was
after.

The classes I have taken in Contac Improv emphasize the sensory component
because it is essential to the improvisation and for the safety of the
dancers. In fact my motivation for taking the classes was to improve my
sensory awareness and communication. We never used mirrors! That wouldn't
help. It's not that it's subjective, it's that it's immediate kinesthetic
feedback. We worked with sharing weight, the various ways our bodies
interact and learning to pay attention and "listen" kinesthetically to
ourselves and our partners. I think many of the exercises we did would be
useful for tango and other social dancers, and the expectations of social
dancers are changing, I think many would be more open to this sort of
thing then perhaps would have been say 5 years ago?

Contac differs from social dance in many significants ways and is probably
more demanding of paying close attention to what you and your partner are
actually doing. I think this is good for developing the awareness that
becomes easier within the context of tango where the interactions are
generally safer and less extreme. The habits of attending are still very
useful and I think would help clueless beginners to clue in much faster.

I was a clueless beginner for years and undertook these classes so that I
now can feel I am an intermediate dancer with a few clues. My observation
was that the pedagogy in Contac Improv resulted in much faster development
of requisite sensitivity and interactions between partners than the
approaches of social dance that I've been exposed to. Of course my view
point is limited by my experiences and YMMV. And there are those who come
to class much better prepared to learn to dance than I was. My concerns
are not with those who are "gifted" or well prepared for dancing, but for
those like myself who come and have a hard time learning. I think
Gallwey's general discussion on what he terms Self 1 which is the
conceptual verbal function and Self 2 which is the non verbal sensory
motor function of the brain is a useful distinction. I don't get into the
"inner game" aspect of it the way he does. He offers useful approaches on
how to teach "how to learn sensorimotor skills" whatever the context.

When we hear on the list, or observe on the dance floor leaders giving
verbal instructions to their partners, we are seeing what Gallwey would
call a Self 1 approach to the activity, that is concepts being verbally
coached. The students then have a mass of instructions to give to
themselves: head up, shoulders down, don't step on your heel, don't move
your hips, on and on until they can barely keep track of all they are
supposed to be doing or worse not doing. Self 2 advocates engage in
interactions that develop the communication and skill non verbally. And
there are specific exercises that can be practised and developed to aid
in that. I believe that this is being done but I think that there is much
more that can be done especially for the benefit of the average and slow
learners. Those gifted for dance will pickup what they need.

peace,
Jonathan Thornton

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:31:41 -0700
From: Robert Hauk <robhauk@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject: Re: "Muscle memory" and other useful concepts withconfusing names

Hello Everyone,

> Stephen Brown wrote:
>
> I cannot comment on other social dances, but I am not in complete
> agreement that the sensory input system is taken for granted and thus
> neglected in the teaching of tango. Many group lessons neglect the
> sensory input system, but not all do. Some teachers ask their students to
> observe their movement in mirrors. In addition, many of the best private
> lessons that I have taken focus exactly on improving skill through use of
> the sensory input system.

The use of mirrors, in my opinion, is limited because your attention is
so diverted from what you can feel within the dance frame. I see people
watching themselves in the mirror, and totally losing their frame and
whatever connection they have. I have also heard women say that they
know when their partner is looking in the mirror because the feeling of
connection goes away. I can tell when my partner is watching herself in
the mirror as well because it feels like she is no longer present with
me. There is a time for mirrors but it is only a help learning the main
structure of a movement, the interior feeling of a movement must be felt
to perfect the movement.

> One distinction between social dance and Tennis, Skiing and Golf is that
> the observation/feedback about the physical accomplishment are more easily
> made. The tennis ball is inside/outside the line. The Golf ball is down
> the middle of the fairway, to the right or to the left. Except for
> movements that can be observed in mirrors, dance is much more subjective.
> It is also potentially more emotionally laden.

I have had a number of my students tell me that learning tango is
exactly like learning to play golf for them. The ball flying down the
fairway may be one piece of feedback, but what they are trying to
perfect is a consistant body movement, informed by natural body
mechanics. I suspect when someone starts to get the feeling of things
they don't have to see the ball flying straight down the fairway to know
that they have hit the ball well. They know more immediately by the
feel of what they just did. They watch the ball so that they can find
it again.

Maybe the thing that is most different in dance is that it is
emotionally laden because it is shared with another person, and it is
impossible to keep that emotion out of our practice. We can't dance and
interpret the music without feeling any emotion. You might be able to
learn the macroscopic movements required to do ochos by just doing a
million of them without music (your partner would be exhausted!), but
when you add music, no two of them will feel the same, because they are
done with the music.

Jonathan wrote:

> The classes I have taken in Contac Improv emphasize the sensory component
> because it is essential to the improvisation and for the safety of the
> dancers. In fact my motivation for taking the classes was to improve my
> sensory awareness and communication. We never used mirrors! That wouldn't
> help. It's not that it's subjective, it's that it's immediate kinesthetic
> feedback. We worked with sharing weight, the various ways our bodies
> interact and learning to pay attention and "listen" kinesthetically to
> ourselves and our partners. I think many of the exercises we did would be
> useful for tango and other social dancers, and the expectations of social
> dancers are changing, I think many would be more open to this sort of
> thing then perhaps would have been say 5 years ago?

Contact improv is a very good forum for discussing what we are trying to
do as we learn to dance. That form requires very careful awareness of
the people you are interacting with. You have to feel the interplay of
the different bodies in order to move, and move other people, and more
importantly so that nobody gets hurt.

There are different ways to feel and learn dance, and I can only talk
intellegently about my own experience. I can only guess at what other
people experience. I dance in an apilado frame, so I have very good
contact with my partner's body. Eyes are useless to know what is going
on, I can't see her body because she is so close to me. I have had to
learn to feel my partner's movement through the body contact. For
instance, doing back ochos I can feel my partner's leg moving and know
when I can move, and how to move to place that foot where I want it. I
move my body to guide the movement of her foot. This definately
requires body kinesthetic intellegence. I have had to learn to apply
what I could do with my own body and extend it into my partner's body,
moving her as an extension of me. In this way the experience feels like
a communication between my kinesthetic intellegence and my partner's.
That can be quite a conversation!

When someone asks me to dance in an open embrace I can do it, I can
still feel my partner's movement, but not as strongly as I can with the
body contact of an apilado frame. I can't always feel the subtle
movements that I like to play with so I feel like I am having a
conversation with someone from opposite ends of a long hallway.

I see people who dance in an open embrace, and they use their eyes a lot
for the feedback. They watch their partner's body and feet to see if
things are going how they want. When I see this a lot of times the body
connection seems tenuous. I see leaders watching and pushing their
partners to get the results they want. Regardless of the embrace
danced, when I see leaders who are not watching with their eyes, rather
feeling with their bodies, where their partners are going the connection
looks very strong. The dance looks effortless, and is very beautiful.

So what Jonathan is speaking about here is important on many levels.
The feeling of a movement is very important, and the skill of listening
to this feedback needs to be developed to dance well. It doesn't matter
what style of dance we are talking about. I have heard women describe
dancing with very good salsa dancers, and it is clear that the guys know
how to lead and feel their partner's movement this way.

This skill is not developed by writing, reading, listening to someone
talk... This skill is developed on the dance floor, one song at a
time. The talking, reading etc... helps because you might begin to know
what you are seeking, but without the experience the discussion is
meaningless. Go dance your miles!

Many happy tangos to all,

Robert

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:20:30 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: "Muscle memory" and other useful concepts withconfusing names

I always enjoy reading Robert Hauk's thoughtful comments.

Robert wrote:

>This skill is not developed by writing, reading, listening to
>someone talk... This skill is developed on the dance floor,
>one song at a time. The talking, reading etc... helps because
>you might begin to know what you are seeking, but without the
>experience the discussion is meaningless. Go dance your miles!

In a way, I think Roberts comments bring us full circle. When I think
about my own effort in learning to dance tango, I remember my teachers
with a great deal of gratitude. I also remember the long hours that Susan
and I spent practicing. Mastery of a physical skill such as dancing
requires practice.

In observing others learn tango, some of whom I have known for many years
I noticed that their are some individuals who run from workshop to
workshop, and tango week to tango week without ever really developing as a
tango dancer. I have seen others blossom with mostly local instruction.
One of the major factors that I have found that distinguishes between
those who can really dance tango from those who cannot is the amount of
practice time that they have.

By the way, I recently read that practice hours was the primary
characteristic separating good violinists from great ones. A violinist
who was capable of playing in minor orchestras had about 5000 hours
practice by their early 20s; a violinist who was capable of playing with a
major orchestra had about 7500 hours of practice by their early 20s, and
one who could make a career as as soloist had 10,000 hours practice by
their early 20s.

>The use of mirrors, in my opinion, is limited because your
>attention is so diverted from what you can feel within the
>dance frame. I see people watching themselves in the mirror,
>and totally losing their frame and whatever connection they have.

I agree with Robert about the use of mirrors in trying observe oneself
dancing with a partner. I was probably unclear. I meant the use of
mirrors to watch oneself during movement exercises. Of course, you can
get feedback about balance, etc, by kinesthetic experience without visual
observation. The key is being observant (visually or otherwise) about
what is the response to a particular way of moving.

Robert said that learning tango is similar to learning golf in that

>[W]hat they are trying to perfect is a consistant body movement,
>informed by natural body mechanics. I suspect when someone
>starts to get the feeling of things they don't have to see the
>ball flying straight down the fairway to know that they have hit
>the ball well.

In building sensory-motor skills, feedback (that is not value-laden) is
important: They know how they have hit the ball because they can remember
the sensory motor feeling that produced a ball hit straight down the
fairway. They learn by watching the ball.

Tango is a bit more tricky because the physical feedback varies from
partner to partner, depends on the partner's experience and it is more
difficult to get an objective measure of what is being done. In some of
the best private lessons that I have had, the instructor provided feedback
by instructing me how to position various parts of my body--not unlike
might be done in Alexander technique. In other private lessons, the same
instructor worked with me providing feedback on developing or refinining a
consistent body movement.

Many Happy Tangos to All,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas