4140  a mystery solved... or resolved?

Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:58:58 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: a mystery solved... or resolved?

Sergio has twice claimed that most women (or maybe most foreign
women) do not know the ocho cortado.

In general, that has not been my experience. Most women dance with
men of different styles and sub-styles, therefore women often have a
wider awareness of the possibilities. So, unless the woman is a
beginner or isolated from diverse styles, she usually can do both
ochos and ocho cortados.

There are some communities without access to diverse styles.
Sometimes a single teacher or style is all they know. The midwest,
where Sergio lives, came late to the milonguero style, and you still
find some people there who don't know ocho cortados. For example I
recall dancing a couple years ago at a festival in Ann Arbor with a
teacher from a college town in the Midwest who had never heard of the
ocho cortado. I think her teacher was from Chicago. She was shocked
to discover that there's more than one way to do tango.

Imagine the poor dancer who goes to Buenos Aires and suddenly finds
that he can't navigate or the poor woman who has never seen an ocho
cortado. Usually, the woman figures it out pretty fast, if she has
any moderate degree of following ability. The man who can't navigate
is often relegated to watching.


Speaking of possibilities, Sergio mentioned that it was incorrect to
twist the hip the "wrong way" in an ocho cortado. He might not be
aware that there are two possibilities for the return on the ocho
cortado, one where the knee leads to the cross and one where the heel
slides under. The ladies hips twist different directions for the
different versions. You see both styles in Buenos Aires (can't
comment on the percentage).

That choice causes a stylistic and technical difference. Obviously in
a dance conversation either the leader or follower can suggest the
choice; The follower has more influence than she's often given credit
for. In other words, by her choice of technique and musicality she
enables or disables possibilities.



On Apr 12, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Sergio Vandekier wrote:

>
> This is interesting because while at the milongas in Buenos Aires
> when I
> danced with Argentine ladies I could use either the ocho cortado or
> the
> front ocho without any difficulty but when I danced with foreign
> girls most
> of them did not know the ocho cortado and would answer my lead
> trying to do
> a rather awkward front ocho. After an initial failure naturally I
> would
> continue dancing with front ochos only.
> ...
> The problem arises when a leader that only knows to dance using the
> ocho
> cortado has to dance with a woman that only knows the front ocho. She
> follows the lead to do the second part of the ocho cortado by
> turning the
> hip the wrong way, pointing to the direction of the move as it is
> done in
> tango salon rather than turning the hip the opposite way and
> crossing her
> left foot in front.
>
> And a final question for you: what happens when a man that only
> knows the
> front ocho dances with a lady that only knows the ocho cortado.
> What do you
> think?
>
> Have a good day, Sergio.
>