5781 N.U.E.V.O.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:49:00 EDT
From: HBBOOGIE1@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: tango-l@mit.edu
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are ?.it?s a duck
Could someone please post a video of a normal traditional Milonga with
some Nuevo couples moving in the line of dance without disrupting others.
Here are two perfect examples of what the eye sees and what the brain
registers. They are labeled for those of you that can't quite make out the
difference between ?Tango? and ?Nuevo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVV83rj9aOc&feature=PlayList&pD82910EA3446
6F&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI
The Word of the Day for October 06, 2009 is:
Nuevo ? \NU e Vo\ ? noun
Never
Understand
Etiquette
Volcada
Obsessed
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:31:57 EDT
From: HBBOOGIE1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: bertil36@hotmail.com, tango-l@mit.edu
I'm sorry but this video is a perfect example of no line of dance. Look at
the video I posted of the BsAs milonga and you can see the entire room
moving in unison in the line of dance. I've never seen nuevo danced at a
traditional milonga without disrupting the floor.Look at your video, Nuevo
dancers will either stop for long periods of time to spin back up against the
line of dance or the number one crime endless kicking. I counted 35 boleos in
one song by a nuevo couple. I'm not saying you can't dance this way I'm
saying you shouldn't dance this way at a traditional milonga. I think the
younger crowd dancing nuevo is not being taught how to respect others on the
dance floor. I don't blame them I blame the teachers and the organizers of
milongas. I go to a milonga in LA where you must follow the rules or you're
asked to leave just like they do in Buenos Aires.
In a message dated 10/6/2009 11:55:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bertil36@hotmail.com writes:
Here is a nice video from an alternative Milonga were there is a very
clear line of dance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JuGuXA6hfw
please enjoy,
Bertil
> From: HBBOOGIE1@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:49:00 -0400
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
>
> If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are ?.it?s a duck
> Could someone please post a video of a normal traditional Milonga with
> some Nuevo couples moving in the line of dance without disrupting others.
> Here are two perfect examples of what the eye sees and what the brain
> registers. They are labeled for those of you that can't quite make out
the
> difference between ?Tango? and ?Nuevo?
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVV83rj9aOc&feature=PlayList&pD82910EA3446
> 6F&index=1
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI
>
> The Word of the Day for October 06, 2009 is:
> Nuevo ? \NU e Vo\ ? noun
>
> Never
> Understand
> Etiquette
> Volcada
> Obsessed
>
>
> Tango-L mailing list
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they
e-mail you. =
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 17:52:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Keith Elshaw" <keith@totango.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<60916.65.93.192.167.1254865946.squirrel@webmail5.pair.com>
>I don't blame them, I blame the teachers ...
The key point.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 02:28:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
Cc: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
> From: "HBBOOGIE1@aol.com" <HBBOOGIE1@aol.com>
>
> If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck? chances are ?.it?s a duck
> > >
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI
>
If this isn't 'Nuevo' can somebody please tell me what it is. I'm confused.
Jack
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:02:23 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>
Jack you ask "what is this?, I am confused"
I do not know what it is, but I know what it is not. It is not Argentine Tango or any other form of tango known to me.
The music is not tango, the character of the dance is not tango, there are moves of the upper body or the hips more related to some of the Central American dances that should not be present in A.T.
There are some moves typical of the A.T. choreography such as ganchos (or leg wraps) and a close embrace, this is all that there is in reference to A.T. or any other form of tango.
What is confusing is the use of the word "Milonga" to describe this type of dance.
The announcement of an "alternative milonga" usually means that a great part of the music played will not be traditional tango, in this particular case neither is the dance being done.
Solution: find a word different than "Milonga" to describe such an event.
Alternative "something" baile? dance? encounter?...
Have a nice day,
Sergio
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
https://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Jack you ask "what is this?, I am confused"
>
>
>
> I do not know what it is, but I know what it is not.?
> It is not Argentine Tango or any other form of tango known
> to me.
Now, Sergio, let's be fair. Quite a few of the dancers in the video are dancing close and look nice. The camera chose to focus on those with flashier moves. The choice of music, however, was awful. It didn't look to me as if people interpreted it well at all. When Sean & I get bored with the music, we end up doing flashier steps just to entertain ourselves. Perhaps this is what happened there.
Trini
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:44:14 -0400
From: Don Klein <don@aymta.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Why do you assume they are taught? Sounds very Northern
hemisphere-based. Even here does the "younger crowd" predominately does
not have "teachers" for swing, hip-hop, cajun, zydeco, ... ?? You
ignore the dynamics of social evolution (or perturbations in
non-equilibrium systems) much like the L'Acad?mie fran?aise attempts to
codify the language to the extent of opposing protection for regional
languages.
Don
HBBOOGIE1@aol.com wrote:
> I think the
> younger crowd dancing nuevo is not being taught how to respect others on the
> dance floor. I don't blame them I blame the teachers ...
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:34:20 EDT
From: HBBOOGIE1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
You're right I shouldn't assume they were taught because if I assume they
were taught the codigos then I would then have to make the assumption that
they were idiotas for not adhering to them.
Even in the Southern hemisphere children are taught respect by the parents
but it's up to the children to decide for themselves to show that respect.
Never try to teach a pig to sing....it wastes
your time and annoys the pig.
In a message dated 10/7/2009 4:45:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
don@aymta.org writes:
Why do you assume they are taught? Sounds very Northern
hemisphere-based. Even here does the "younger crowd" predominately does
not have "teachers" for swing, hip-hop, cajun, zydeco, ... ?? You
ignore the dynamics of social evolution (or perturbations in
non-equilibrium systems) much like the L'Acad?mie fran?aise attempts to
codify the language to the extent of opposing protection for regional
languages.
Don
HBBOOGIE1@aol.com wrote:
> I think the
> younger crowd dancing nuevo is not being taught how to respect others on
the
> dance floor. I don't blame them I blame the teachers ...
Tango-L mailing list
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:59:11 -0400
From: Don Klein <don@aymta.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: HBBOOGIE1@aol.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
I would agree that it would be nice if all chose appropriate venues for
their styles until they are into protest art or street theater, but that
doesn't devalue the styles.
HBBOOGIE1@aol.com wrote:
> You're right I shouldn't assume they were taught because if I assume they
> were taught the codigos then I would then have to make the assumption that
> they were idiotas for not adhering to them.
> Even in the Southern hemisphere children are taught respect by the parents
> but it's up to the children to decide for themselves to show that respect.
> Never try to teach a pig to sing....it wastes
> your time and annoys the pig.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/7/2009 4:45:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> don@aymta.org writes:
> Why do you assume they are taught? Sounds very Northern
> hemisphere-based. Even here does the "younger crowd" predominately does
> not have "teachers" for swing, hip-hop, cajun, zydeco, ... ?? You
> ignore the dynamics of social evolution (or perturbations in
> non-equilibrium systems) much like the L'Acad?mie fran?aise attempts to
> codify the language to the extent of opposing protection for regional
> languages.
>
> Don
>
>
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:20:32 +0200
From: Ecsedy ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
Don Klein ?rta:
> I would agree that it would be nice if all chose appropriate venues for
> their styles until they are into protest art or street theater, but that
> doesn't devalue the styles.
>
I am always fascinated by the insatiable need of Western societies to
regualte things as if by decree. I believe this is one of the biggest
obstacles in learning how to behave, in tango and in life. The way the
general perception see latins... Paying attention to the justifiable
needs of others as a default, and knowing when you cross the line (not
forbidden, just not pretending that you are entitled to do so) would
help both the US and Europe become much more 'liveable'. Right now, if
there is a 'rule' for something then nobody gives a sh*t about what is
balanced, and what happens to the other person. Those 'codigos' are
simple things to avoid a more aggressive confrontation. They aren't
really rules as such. They are life insurance policies. You can break
them, but retalation will not be automatic. Only if the breaking of the
rule caused harm to someone else.
I do not believe that the artificial separation (even if voluntary)
solves anything - it only separates people. The solution would be to pay
attention to very basic ethics of reciprocity. Do unto others as you
would have them do unto you. Or rather: Bump into others as you would
have them bump into you.
Cheers,
Aron
--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 20 66-36-006
https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4488 (20091007) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
https://www.eset.com
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:43:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: RonTango <rontango@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: Ecsedy ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>, Tango-L <TANGO-L@mit.edu>
----- Original Message ----
> From: Ecsedy ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
>
> I am always fascinated by the insatiable need of Western societies to
> regualte things as if by decree. I believe this is one of the biggest
> obstacles in learning how to behave, in tango and in life. The way the
> general perception see latins... Paying attention to the justifiable
> needs of others as a default, and knowing when you cross the line (not
> forbidden, just not pretending that you are entitled to do so) would
> help both the US and Europe become much more 'liveable'. Right now, if
> there is a 'rule' for something then nobody gives a sh*t about what is
> balanced, and what happens to the other person. Those 'codigos' are
> simple things to avoid a more aggressive confrontation. They aren't
> really rules as such. They are life insurance policies. You can break
> them, but retalation will not be automatic. Only if the breaking of the
> rule caused harm to someone else.
This is incorrect. Milonga codes are not as strictly enforced in Buenos Aires as they were in the past, but they still exist. Reckless navigation is frowned upon. If it is flagrant, you will be spoken to by the milonga organizer. (The violator's lack of knowledge of Spanish makes this a futile intervention.) You don't approach the table of someone whom don't know to ask for a dance. (Most likely you will be turned down.) You use the cabeceo instead. You don't invite someone to dance who is part of a couple. You don't dance the cortina. You don't drop someone in the middle of a tanda. Someone who violates these rules will be peripheralized, not invited to dance, in extreme cases asked to leave the milonga.
In fact, by comparison it is North American milongas that often lack these rules. What I see is that the Nuevoistas and the Nuevoista-wannabies act often act like rebellious adolescents who don't want to be controlled by rules. As long as there is no blood on the floor, everything is cool. Dancers who want to have some decorum at milongas (adhere to the line-of-dance, don't bump into people) are framed as control freaks, tango police, and even tango fascists. What I see happening repeatedly is that despite saying they respect tango tradition, the music, and the customs, in their actions the Nuevoistas are forgetting tradition, ignoring the music, and rebelling against customs in their display of this new evolved form of tango. Call it Nuevo or call it just bad manners, but more and more people are getting fed up with the coup d'etat that is occurring at many North American milongas. That's why an increasing number of us are calling for segregation of
events. As far as we're concerned, you can set your own codes of behavior (or lack of standards) at your alternative milongas and we won't care; we just won't attend. Just don't come running into our milongas like the bulls of Pamplona. Instead of saying 'I can't believe that you people are regulating behavior by decree', either abide by the codes of the milonga you attend, or don't come. And, yes, just so people know what to expect, clearly label your milongas as "Alternative" and your teaching as "Nuevo", so people know what to expect.
> I do not believe that the artificial separation (even if voluntary)
> solves anything - it only separates people. The solution would be to pay
> attention to very basic ethics of reciprocity. Do unto others as you
> would have them do unto you. Or rather: Bump into others as you would
> have them bump into you.
Separation is necessary because the goals of the dancers (music, manner of dancing) are incompatible. If you can't respect that codes of the environment, don't impose your codes (or lack of them) on a unappreciative audience. No one is telling you how to run your alternative milongas. Don't force traditionalists to have a Nuevo environment imposed on them against their will.
Ron
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 05:58:24 +0000
From: jb34528@att.net
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
<100820090558.465.4ACD7F7F000D354C000001D122243323629B0A02D29B9B0EBFC8CDCACBCC0D06@att.net>
-------------- Original message from Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>: -------
Jack Dylan wrote
>If this ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI) isn't 'Nuevo' can somebody please tell >me what it is. I'm confused.
>Jack
It is a beautiful tango - of "young people". (With the greatest respect for Sergio?s opinion, who so often had to step in to restore sanity to the debates on this list.) I do not like the music though. Saw Chicho a number of times using the same style shown on the video to interpret music of DiSarli or Ricardo Tanturi, for example. Of course, Chicho blends in beautifully in a traditional, ?feet on the floor at all times?, milonga. His advice to us was ?don?t do this (re: a move in the video) unless you find a space and then resume the close embrace dance?. It strikes me as a little insane that people are being segregated to dance ?nuevo? to the non-traditional music ? re: ?alternative milonga?. Since I am often asked for it when I DJ, I can an only speculate that the younger generation finds such music appealing because of their disco, swing and salsa experiences. The ?nuevo? dancers complained about on this list are generally well behaved and polite people who, for example!
, abruptly stop to let you go first through the door. It is up to the milonga organizer who needs to stop acting as a potted plant and help such dancers to translate their good manners into the milonga environment. I.e., not to inform them that the ?nuevo? is forbidden but that they MUST make sure that any expansive moves do not interfere with or even scare other dancers. I.e., it?s OK only if they find a space.
I wrote ?nuevo? in quotation marks because the dance on the video is not ?nuevo?, it is the nuevo enabled tango.
Jan
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:00:35 +0200
From: ECSEDY ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
> Reckless navigation is frowned upon.
Reckless meaning threatening others, no?
> If it is flagrant, you will be spoken to by the milonga organizer. (The violator's lack of knowledge of Spanish makes this a futile intervention.)
Again...it is disturbing others.
> You don't approach the table of someone whom don't know to ask for a dance. (Most likely you will be turned down.)
Which means that this isn't a rule. Simply, women protect their own
interest for a good dance. An 80+ year old BsAs (folklore) dance teacher
told me once, that she stopped going to milongas (she is dancing tango
aswell), because good dancers tended to ask younger women to dance, and
she doesn't need a bad dance, it is not what she's there for.
> You use the cabeceo instead.
Which works. Or it isn't. Again: it is just the choice of a woman.
Cabeceo is a good way to protect her (and the other's) peace of mind. If
it is not done universally, it will spawn a kind of contest, who is the
more direct ("promiscous") and men get use to be able to ask anyone out
anytime (like in most other parts of the world). Cabeceo is not observed
in all environments within BsAs either.
> You don't invite someone to dance who is part of a couple.
Except if you do. The rules appear to be same as asking someone for a
lunch or dinner. If you aren't aware that she has partner, if she is
open to it, if you know both of them...etc. It is very human. Anyone
with who's not utterly autistic will see this. Or if not, he will be
rejected (then see above).
> You don't dance the cortina.
That isn't a rule. A cortina's role is to separate dances and to allow
people to clear the floor and get read to find a new partner. DJs tend
to play the cortina as long as this is not fulfilled.
> You don't drop someone in the middle of a tanda.
Unless, s/he's a bad dancer, or you just not feeling comfortable to
dance with him/her. I saw it happen regularely.
> In fact, by comparison it is North American milongas that often lack these rules. What I see is that the Nuevoistas and the Nuevoista-wannabies act often act like rebellious adolescents who don't want to be controlled by rules. As long as there is
Apparently, these Nuevoistas are very old adolescents indeed. Some of
them over 50...
> no blood on the floor, everything is cool. Dancers who want to have some decorum at milongas (adhere to the line-of-dance, don't bump into people) are framed as control freaks, tango police, and even tango fascists. What I see happening repeatedly is that despite saying they respect tango tradition, the music, and the customs, in their actions the Nuevoistas are forgetting tradition, ignoring the music, and rebelling against customs in their display of this new evolved form of tango.
All they above is just not paying attention to others. Rules are
external. Goodwill towards your 'dancemates' is internal. That's a
paradigm change which is connected to modernity.
> occurring at many North American milongas. That's why an increasing number of us are calling for segregation of
> events. As far as we're concerned, you can set your own codes of behavior (or lack of standards) at your alternative milongas and we won't care; we just won't attend. Just don't come running into our milongas like the bulls of Pamplona. Instead of saying 'I can't believe that you people are regulating behavior by decree', either abide by the codes of the milonga you attend, or don't come. And, yes, just so people know what to expect, clearly label your milongas as "Alternative" and your teaching as "Nuevo", so people know what to expect.
>
That can't work. You are neither allowed to (until they cause harm), and
you can't enforce it either (there is absolutely no legal way to throw
someone out if he is not causing serious problems and paid for the entry
- at least not in Europe). If most of the dancers at a milonga like it
in a certain way, I suggest that instead of being authoritative, try to
chat the trespassers up and while befriending them talk about your
concept, the way you like your milongas, why do you like them that way.
This is much more effective then forcing people. Also makes you sleep a
lot better. Of course, it takes more time then telling them off, but
probably you will not be handled as delusional power crazy fossils either...
Cheers,
Aron
--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 20 66-36-006
https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:34:17 +0000
From: Laura V <laura@lavatop.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
Not every tango community is large enough to support separate
traditional and nuevo milongas. When I dj, I usually throw in a couple
of alternative tandas, because I know some of the dancers love it. Not
everyone dances to these, but surprisingly, more and more people try it,
just to let loose a bit. If they don't want to, then they can use the
time to get a drink, chat with friends, etc. We also have dancers using
open embrace and larger figures during traditional tunes, not a problem
if everyone respects the line of dance and space involved.
The dancing in the video clip from Portland is pretty wild - because the
music called for it and there was space for it. I didn't see any bumping
though...nuevo dancers don't walk backward in the line of dance, do
they? I also noticed at least a few couples in close embrace. Possibly
they were hoping for the song to finish and something a bit more musical
to take its place, who knows. This was after all just one random song at
an unspecified time of the evening; I would be surprised if the entire
milonga was of exactly the same flavor, as a good nuevo dj should vary
the mood and intensity during the evening just as a traditional dj would.
Most milongas and festivals I've attended in Europe (Sweden, Holland,
Germany, UK) seem to accommodate a mix of traditional and nuevo, but the
traditions (the tandas, cortinas, cabeceo, dance direction, etc) are
still very much in place, as they should be. These "rules" (more like
guidelines) have developed over time for a reason...to keep the evening
running smoothly.
Just my observations!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 07:09:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.--oldies are goodies
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I receive from a friend a CD of a tango singer, named Vayo . It seems the man is from Uruguay, although his voice is a bit brazilian , I am not sure.
the fact is , he says he makes different tangos, and arrangement of known tangos as la cumparsita .....
frankly speaking , this arrangements are not danceable in a milonga? night . They lack the tempo, the beating, they are longer than what an average track of a tango could be ( 3 minutes is more than enough for a track).
so I can t see how this music could be introduced into a milonga night without changing the atmosphere of dancers,. Maybe it could be a good music to have die hards ( the one that danced even the cortina ) , stomping away at the end of the milonga night, on the small hours...
Anibal Troilo once said that there was not such a thing that tango nuevo or tango viejo, it simply was a matter of tango played well or bad.
Bajofondo, Tanghetto, Gotan project .... they simply are not tango traditional and if played ,as said before, within a tango night altogether with the oldies but goodies... it simply spoil the night
alberto
Yahoo! Cocina
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 07:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.--oldies are goodies
To: tango-l@MIT.EDU
I receive from a friend a CD of a tango singer, named Vayo . It seems the man is from Uruguay, although his voice is a bit brazilian , I am not sure.
the fact is , he says he makes different tangos, and arrangement of known tangos as la cumparsita .....
frankly speaking , this arrangements are not danceable in a milonga? night . They lack the tempo, the beating, they are longer than what an average track of a tango could be ( 3 minutes is more than enough for a track).
so I can t see how this music could be introduced into a milonga night without changing the atmosphere of dancers,. Maybe it could be a good music to have die hards ( the one that danced even the cortina ) , stomping away at the end of the milonga night, on the small hours...
Anibal Troilo once said that there was not such a thing that tango nuevo or tango viejo, it simply was a mattr of tango played well or bad.
Bajofondo, Tanghetto, Gotan project .... they simply are not tango traditional and if played ,as said
________________________________
De: Laura V <laura@lavatop.com>
Enviado: jue, octubre 8, 2009 7:34:17 AM
Asunto: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
Not every tango community is large enough to support separate
traditional and nuevo milongas. When I dj, I usually throw in a couple
of alternative tandas, because I know some of the dancers love it. Not
everyone dances to these, but surprisingly, more and more people try it,
just to let loose a bit. If they don't want to, then they can use the
time to get a drink, chat with friends, etc. We also have dancers using
open embrace and larger figures during traditional tunes, not a problem
if everyone respects the line of dance and space involved.
The dancing in the video clip from Portland is pretty wild - because the
music called for it and there was space for it. I didn't see any bumping
though...nuevo dancers don't walk backward in the line of dance, do
they? I also noticed at least a few couples in close embrace. Possibly
they were hoping for the song to finish and something a bit more musical
to take its place, who knows. This was after all just one random song at
an unspecified time of the evening; I would be surprised if the entire
milonga was of exactly the same flavor, as? a good nuevo dj should vary
the mood and intensity during the evening just as a traditional dj would.
Most milongas and festivals I've attended in Europe (Sweden, Holland,
Germany, UK) seem to accommodate a mix of traditional and nuevo, but the
traditions (the tandas, cortinas, cabeceo, dance direction, etc) are
still very much in place, as they should be. These "rules" (more like
guidelines) have developed over time for a reason...to keep the evening
running smoothly.
Just my observations!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI
Yahoo! Cocina
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:28:39 -0700
From: "Anton Stanley" <anton@alidas.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
Aron wrote:
"I do not believe that the artificial separation (even if voluntary)
solves anything - it only separates people. The solution would be to pay
attention to very basic ethics of reciprocity. Do unto others as you
would have them do unto you. Or rather: Bump into others as you would
have them bump into you."
With all due respect to the author of the above, it's not the bumping that I
find the most objectionable, because as a fairly big lump of a guy, I could
out-bump most. It's the extra attention I have to divert from connection to
my partner and the music that I find painfully annoying. To feel that an
unpredictable missile is sharing the dance floor with me, triggers my combat
instincts. Which quite frankly doesn't help me find the tango moment. I'm of
the opinion that much of the extravagant movements displayed on the social
milonga floors, is some of the guys engaging in a form of pissing
competition. A very visual demonstration of their tango prowess. Not the
subtlety and depth to which I strive. Quite often I find it more peaceful to
vacate the floor in the middle of a dance than wait for my defences to be
ratcheted up to code red.
Anton
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:30:15 +0200
From: Ecsedy ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] N.U.E.V.O.
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
Dear Anton,
I see your point. But you may (also?) suffer of a civilizational
'disease'. Many people create a concept of tango for themselves which is
sort of an introvert concept. It is tango zen. The harmony in tango etc.
This is obviously the result of western sped up lifestyle: you are
looking for an island of peace in tango. I do not think that this is
wrong. It is however neither entirely authentic nor the 'full' picture.
> out-bump most. It's the extra attention I have to divert from connection to
> my partner and the music that I find painfully annoying. To feel that an
>
Navigation in a milonga is pretty straightforward. General
counterclockwise path. You are only responsible for the path into the
'forward' direction (on the counterclockwise path). Do not take steps
outide your actual field of view, only make steps into space that is
empty and that is not being taken by another couple at least for the
next beat (this requires some anticipation based on the couple's curve
and speed on the floor). Accelerate only as much so you can still stop
for the end of the beat. (that together with the use empty space only
'rule' makes it possible to do large or fast steps even in a crowd) Of
course, if someone is travelling fast, it is much harder to anticipate
what is going to happen - no problem there: it is then the speeder's
problem to make sure you have ample time and information to judge. If
not, see below...
> unpredictable missile is sharing the dance floor with me, triggers my combat
>
If you are only 'afraid' of a collision then it may be just your Western
instinct: when you go around BsAs for the first time (even on foot) most
people have mortal fear, because nobody seems to be aware of your zone
of personal comfort (closeness). After a few days it is natural that
people are coming really close to you, but some people can't accept it
even after years. It is a question of personality.
Nevertheless, this should not be mixed up with the situation when you
need to actually stop, break hard or change direction because the other
couple is a bad navigator - in which case you are absolutely right. My
suggestion: tell them!
> milonga floors, is some of the guys engaging in a form of pissing
> competition. A very visual demonstration of their tango prowess. Not the
>
Well, I think this type of showing off is a part of the game. Of course
some people do it with style and charm, others act as human fireworks,
which is also very Western (or Northern). Anyway, you should not be
interested in them if you can do your own stuff at the same time. Most
'firework' type dancers are not really preferred by the majority as
partners...
> subtlety and depth to which I strive. Quite often I find it more peaceful to
>
There you go. Stick to it, it is your style. As for the others, until
they become a _physical_ obstacle, it is their dancing. If they are fast
or use large steps, they will need very advanced navigational (and
dancing) skills. If they don't have it, IMO just tell how it feels what
they do. If you are the third to tell them this, they will listen...if
you never tell them, they might never understand.
Cheers,
Aron
--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 20 66-36-006
https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4491 (20091008) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
https://www.eset.com
