3657  negotiating the dance

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 04:36:28 -0700
From: H Dickinson <hyladlmp@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: negotiating the dance

We can know only one thing about someone who shows up to dance
at a milonga: they have some interest in dancing tango. We
cannot assume that they want love, or a cuddle with no strings,
or sex, or a relationship, or to tease and drive the opposite
sex crazy, or to improve self-esteem, find a deeper meaning to
life, sell used cars, become a stage star, network for business,
experience nirvana in a tango trance, or anything other than
that they are there to dance. Maybe some or all of these other
things are there. Perhaps for many dancers, those other reasons
are the primary ones, and dancing merely secondary. But there
are so many possible reasons other than dancing that might have
brought us there, and so many of these reasons are opposed to
one another, that the only one that we can *assume* is: we are
here to dance. If anything else is desired, we must negotiate
it, because we cannot take it for granted.

Mr. Coleman, in the post that so disturbed you, I did
specifically mean pheremones, not smell; in other words,
unfortunately, changing cologne did not make a man I enjoyed
dancing with, into one who I wanted to date, unless that was
already so. I used the word "scent" because that is how I think
of it. I later did use the phrase "if his pheremones fire up my
hormones", which to me, implied what I had meant. Mea culpa
that this was not so.

The point that I was making is that much of the negotiation
about dating, can and does happen during a dance and in the ways
that people behave just before and just after the tanda. There
are many small interactions that give one an overall idea of "Do
we have a connection? Does my partner want to take this further
than the dance? Does he listen to me the way that I want him
to? Does she respond the way I want her to? Does she linger
when the tanda is over, does he seek me out to chat, when I
approach this person, does he/she find excuses to leave, avoid
meeting my eye, or stay, seek me out in turn?" This gives both
members of the couple some hints as to whether advances might be
welcomed. When these small clues are unnoticed or disregarded,
that is when people feel invaded, harassed, irritated, etc.

Like the custom of cabeceo, attention to the little overtures
and responses is a very nice way to avoid a more public
humiliation. "Ah, she is drawing away from me when I rub my
thigh suggestively against hers, but when I refrain from doing
so, she relaxes and we dance well together. I sense that she
enjoys our dancing but wishes for nothing further." "OOHH, when
I touched his foot oh so lightly, he squeezed me tighter and
took a very deep breath. And now that the tanda is over, he
keeps holding me and sighs, and now we meet several tandas
later, making eye contact and smiling at one another and talking
of mutual interests. This seems to have potential beyond the
milonga...." I am exaggerating to make a point here, (Sergio
indicates that this would be overly blatant behavior in Bs.
As.). The signals are usually much more subtle, but if you
listen, look, feel, they are there.

I know many men who go to milongas to dance, mainly to dance,
not to date. They are not primarily there to pick up women,
they just love the music and the dance and the challenge of
getting better at both. They often talk of being "stalked" by
women, as an unpleasant experience. These men are not
necessarily the tallest, or best looking. Some of them don't
use cologne, some are overweight, some are not very articulate,
are older, balding, dress badly, some have various other
"flaws", but because they are particularly good dancers,
respectful and attentive to their partners while dancing, they
are very attractive to the women. Note that I consider
"respectful and attentive to their partners" as a prerequisite
quality for a "good dancer". Part of that respect means that
you notice how she is responding, what is her feedback. You try
something and she is uneasy, so you notice that and do less of
it, or stop doing it, or find a way to do it that feels
comfortable.

To my mind, it is partly this sense of being respected, listened
to, heard, valued, that causes women to flock to the best leads.
They can't help thinking "is he like this in a relationship,
too? What about sex, if he is this attentive during a dance,
might that not carry over? Oh, WOW!" It doesn't, necessarily,
but the association is pretty powerful.

The good, the best dancers (male or female) are willing and able
to listen and respond to what their partner wants, even if it is
expressed non-verbally, even if it means they don't get what
they want, that gancho or that close close embrace, or that
date. And if one of them wants to change the context away from
dance to something else--sex, business connections, are you in
the market for a good used car?--then they test the waters
first, and respect indications that this change of intentions is
not welcome.

The men who are pursued by women are almost always as irritated
by these women, as the women who have been posting, are
irritated by the lecherous men. In both cases, the people who
are doing the imposing are thinking only of what they want, so
caught up in their desire or fantasy that they don't really look
at the desired person and notice their actual behavior and
feedback. It is not really very flattering or attractive to
have someone ignore or disregard your demeanor and behavior and
general signals of intent.

Once a man or woman has put in several years of work on the
dancing itself, and money to classes, privates, etc., he or she
does not like the dancing to be seen or used only as a means to
someone else's end. For me, since the dance itself is so much a
reason for being at the milonga, the very fact that a partner
views the dance only as a preview for dating, is a turn-off. I
already know then, that this is not someone I want to date--he
is not seeking excellence in craft, he is not able to see the
layers of richness in the dance apart from the sexual. We do
not have a common ground--I see the dance as the end itself, he
sees it as the means to an end. Why would I date him?

Maybe that is the real divide--those who are in tango for the
tango (dance, music, embrace, feeling, challenge, connection,
excellence) versus those who are in tango for something else
(sex, socializing, diversion, whatever). Being in the first
group, I of course assume that my agenda is the "best" one, and
get irritated when my nose is rubbed in the fact that those in
the second group, assume that not only is theirs the "best"
agenda, but that I must necessarily share it. Perhaps we should
wear little stickers identifying which group we belong to?

Hyla

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:41:12 -0400
From: Gülden Özen
<gulden@TANGOPHILIA.COM>
Subject: Re: negotiating the dance

At 07:36 AM 7/29/2005, H Dickinson wrote:

>Maybe that is the real divide--those who are in tango for the
>tango (dance, music, embrace, feeling, challenge, connection,
>excellence) versus those who are in tango for something else
>(sex, socializing, diversion, whatever). Being in the first
>group, I of course assume that my agenda is the "best" one, and
>get irritated when my nose is rubbed in the fact that those in
>the second group, assume that not only is theirs the "best"
>agenda, but that I must necessarily share it. Perhaps we should
>wear little stickers identifying which group we belong to?
>
>Hyla

Hyla,

Thank you for the time you've taken to think about all these details and
putting them into well-thought words.

> I would like to ask you one thing, though: you mention a "real divide"
> between "those who are in tango for the tango" and "those who are in
> tango for something else" and put yourself in the first group. Could you
> tell me what you thought of tango the very first day you went to a class
> or maybe to an intro class before a milonga? Were you aware of all the
> aspects of tango like the dance, the music, the embrace and especially
> the connection/feeling/challenge etc. as you put it?

In my opinion, in US, new people come to tango mostly not because of
an idea about the real aspects of the social tango but with a more clear
image of a performing couple or a soundtrack that impressed them, if their
reason has anything to do with tango! Or they are Argentines who have an
idea about the social aspect of the tango but don't know how to
dance! Other than these people, I believe most beginners fall in the
second category you have described above. It only becomes a problem if
these non-tango related reasons to try out a social tango environment
remain as the main reasons for someone after several months or years of
exposure to classes, practicas and milongas.
Let's not forget what the reasons for the very first tango dancers were:
being alone, being an immigrant in another city/country and seeking company
was a strong enough drive to create an embrace to dance, wasn't it?

Gulden

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:05:04 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: negotiating the dance

Hyla wrote:

"The men who are pursued by women are almost always as irritated by
these women, as the women who have been posting, are irritated by the
lecherous men. In both cases, the people who are doing the imposing
are thinking only of what they want, so caught up in their desire or
fantasy that they don't really look at the desired person and notice
their actual behavior and feedback. It is not really very flattering
or attractive to have someone ignore or disregard your demeanor and
behavior and general signals of intent."


Needless to say one observes this kind of behaviour mostly from
beginners who mistook "Tango is intimacy" message to mean "Tango is
sex". The confused beginners have not had a chance (have not found the
communication technique) to discover the nature of tango and hasten to
replace it with cheap and quick imitations.


Once they have discovered the tango communication technique, "Once a
man or woman has put in several years of work on the dancing itself,
and money to classes, privates, etc., he or she does not like the
dancing to be seen or used only as a means to someone else's end. For
me, since the dance itself is so much a reason for being at the
milonga, the very fact that a partner views the dance only as a
preview for dating, is a turn-off."



Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com