2149  New book about the Tango

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:42:59 EST
From: "Carlos G. Groppa" <Tango4You@AOL.COM>
Subject: New book about the Tango

Hi Tango Lovers:

Great news! The book "The Tango in the United States" just arrived. You can
find it in your neighborhood bookstore, or through www.amazon.com or
www.mcfarlandpub.com

"The Tango in the United State" chronicles the history of the tango in the
United States, from 1910, with its antecedents in Argentina, Paris, and London
to the present day.

It covers the dancers, musicians, and composers who were promoting it, and
the tango's influence on American music. Chapters are dedicated to Vernon and
Irene Castle, Rudolph Valentino, Arthur Murray, Xavier Cugat, the Big Band and
jazz singers who incorporated tangos with English lyrics into their
repertoires, Juan Carlos Cobián, Osvaldo Fresedo, Francisco Canaro, Carlos Gardel, Astor
Piazzolla, the influence of World War II on the tango, portrayals of the tango
in the movies and ballet, and the tango recordings of Gerry Mulligan, Gary
Burton, Al Di Meola, Yo-Yo Ma, and Julio Iglesias, among many other topics.

"The Tango in the United States" was written by Carlos C. Groppa, editor of
the magazine Tango Reporter.

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:34:34 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

Carlos Groppa wrote about Great news:

"The book "The Tango in the United States" just arrived."


If cover of this book
(https://images.amazon.com/images/P/0786414065.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) accurately
represents the content, think twice. I hope the tango in the United States
has not stooped this low.

Cheers, Oleh K.

https://TangoSpring.com

>From: "Carlos G. Groppa" <Tango4You@AOL.COM>
>Reply-To: Tango4You@AOL.COM
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] New book about the Tango
>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:42:59 EST
>
>Hi Tango Lovers:
>
>Great news! The book "The Tango in the United States" just arrived. You can
>find it in your neighborhood bookstore, or through www.amazon.com or
>www.mcfarlandpub.com
>
>"The Tango in the United State" chronicles the history of the tango in the
>United States, from 1910, with its antecedents in Argentina, Paris, and
>London
>to the present day.
>
>It covers the dancers, musicians, and composers who were promoting it, and
>the tango's influence on American music. Chapters are dedicated to Vernon
>and
>Irene Castle, Rudolph Valentino, Arthur Murray, Xavier Cugat, the Big Band
>and
>jazz singers who incorporated tangos with English lyrics into their
>repertoires, Juan Carlos Cobian, Osvaldo Fresedo, Francisco Canaro, Carlos
>Gardel, Astor
>Piazzolla, the influence of World War II on the tango, portrayals of the
>tango
>in the movies and ballet, and the tango recordings of Gerry Mulligan, Gary
>Burton, Al Di Meola, Yo-Yo Ma, and Julio Iglesias, among many other topics.
>
>"The Tango in the United States" was written by Carlos C. Groppa, editor of
>the magazine Tango Reporter.

Find high-speed net deals comparison-shop your local providers here.

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:05:34 -0800
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

>> https://images.amazon.com/images/P/0786414065.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Hi Oleh,
Hmmm, that move is very common here in the States. Isn't it the
same worldwide ?? Beginners usually wind up landing on the floor,
but I'm getting the hang of it ;o)
R
PS: Totally kidding... Holy smokes, what a move! Love to see it.
Wonder who the follow is, she's gorgeous..

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:27:31 EST
From: TangoLady@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

Oleh wrote:

>If cover of this book
>(https://images.amazon.com/images/P/0786414065.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) accurately
>represents the content, think twice. I hope the tango in the United States
>has not stooped this low.

I know a great majority of female Tango dancers would love to be able to do
that move. It is beautiful and very depictive of the Tango Shows we get in the
US and in Europe/Asia. Fortunately or unfortunately that is the export
Tango, and a lot of us fell in love with when Tango Argentino came to the US. Back
then social Tango was hardly known in the US. Many other shows followed and
still the moves and endings of routines were very dramatic and similar.

In my book that is called show biz. Sorry but a lot of people don't want to
pay $40 to $75 dollars (depending on seating at a theater) to see social
dancing at a Milonga. They want action.

My two cents worth.

Lydia

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:43:27 -0700
From: Rick McGarrey <rickmcg@FLASH.NET>
Subject: New book about the Tango

Poses like the one in the picture are intended to get attention. They impress
people who don't have much exposure to tango - which is why they put them on
the covers of books.

A friend of ours just returned from 10 days in Buenos Aires and said, "I saw a
lot of great dancing in the shows, but I wasn't too impressed with the skill
level of the dancing at the milongas." I was a little disappointed, because he
is a prominent instructor in the U.S., and I was hoping he would shift his
teaching a little more away from performance style tango. But after I thought
about what he said, I realized that most people would have almost the same
experience from only a week or two in BsAs. Seeing 4 or 5 shows will expose
you to dozens of great performers, but most of the people you see dancing
socially will not be very good- especially if you go mostly to the well known
night time milongas. It is simply percentages. Almost everyone on stage is a
good performer, but not everyone in the milongas is a good social dancer. Of
the many thousands who dance socially in BsAs, only a small percentage are
truly exceptional. There may be as many or more great social dancers as there
are stage dancers, but they are often hiding among the many average social
dancers. You need to know where to look, and, also, how to look. They won't
stand out like the couple on the cover of the book.

By the way, the couple on the cover looks like Alejandra Arrue, and her husband
Sergio Natario. Ironically, if that's who it is, I don't believe either one
has actually ever danced in the U.S. (I could be wrong). Alejandra Arrue was
one of Celia Blanco's students, along with Alejandra Todaro (who only dances
socially). Celia will tell you that both are great dancers- but to the casual
observer, Alejandra Arrue's performance tango will be noticed first every time.
It takes a bit more knowledge and work to spot the great social dancers.

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:06:28 -0800
From: David Hodgson <DHodgson@TANGO777.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

Hmmmmm....
I think this is funny.............
David~


-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 2:28 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] New book about the Tango


Oleh wrote:

>If cover of this book
>(https://images.amazon.com/images/P/0786414065.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) accurately
>represents the content, think twice. I hope the tango in the United States
>has not stooped this low.

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:05:53 -0500
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

>In my book that is called show biz. Sorry but a lot of people don't want
>to
>pay $40 to $75 dollars (depending on seating at a theater) to see social
>dancing at a Milonga. They want action.

>My two cents worth.

>Lydia

That might be right, but the vast majority of tango dancers don't care too
much about dancing like that because it's very difficult to do and gets in
the way of the milonga. Also, a lot of people don't want to pay any money to
watch tango at all. Actually, the vast majority of tango dancers I know
would rather dance tango most of the time than watch somebody else dance it
(with a few notable exceptions)

Manuel




visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com

Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here.

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:14:02 -0500
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

>A friend of ours just returned from 10 days in Buenos Aires and said, "I
>saw a

l>ot of great dancing in the shows, but I wasn't too impressed with the
skill

>level of the dancing at the milongas."

This might have been due to the milongas he attended. I don't know about
anybody else, but I still remember my first time in BsAs.... I was
completely blown away by the dancing at the milongas. Back then I had only
been taught the basic steps of tango and while I could dance a salida, lead
ochos and even do an occasional back sacada (Nora Dinzelbacker managed to
teach me a back sacada when I first began to dance, thank you Nora!), I was
in no way prepared to dance at a milonga in BsAs. I had to return and really
apply myself to learn how to really dance tango and navigate the floor.
Surely, unless things have gone badly awry in the last 7 or 8 years, the
dancing at the milogas in Bs As is at least as good as anywhere else in the
world and definitely superior to what I've seen in my travels.

High level dancing to all,

Manuel




visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:08:06 -0500
From: John Gleeson <jgleeson@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

NEVER, EVER, judge a book by it's cover !!!!



----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] New book about the Tango

> Carlos Groppa wrote about Great news:
>
> "The book "The Tango in the United States" just arrived."
>
>
> If cover of this book
> (https://images.amazon.com/images/P/0786414065.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg) accurately
> represents the content, think twice. I hope the tango in the United States
> has not stooped this low.
>
> Cheers, Oleh K.
>
> https://TangoSpring.com
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Carlos G. Groppa" <Tango4You@AOL.COM>
> >Reply-To: Tango4You@AOL.COM
> >To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> >Subject: [TANGO-L] New book about the Tango
> >Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:42:59 EST
> >
> >Hi Tango Lovers:
> >
> >Great news! The book "The Tango in the United States" just arrived. You can
> >find it in your neighborhood bookstore, or through www.amazon.com or
> >www.mcfarlandpub.com
> >
> >"The Tango in the United State" chronicles the history of the tango in the
> >United States, from 1910, with its antecedents in Argentina, Paris, and
> >London
> >to the present day.
> >
> >It covers the dancers, musicians, and composers who were promoting it, and
> >the tango's influence on American music. Chapters are dedicated to Vernon
> >and
> >Irene Castle, Rudolph Valentino, Arthur Murray, Xavier Cugat, the Big Band
> >and
> >jazz singers who incorporated tangos with English lyrics into their
> >repertoires, Juan Carlos Cobian, Osvaldo Fresedo, Francisco Canaro, Carlos
> >Gardel, Astor
> >Piazzolla, the influence of World War II on the tango, portrayals of the
> >tango
> >in the movies and ballet, and the tango recordings of Gerry Mulligan, Gary
> >Burton, Al Di Meola, Yo-Yo Ma, and Julio Iglesias, among many other topics.
> >
> >"The Tango in the United States" was written by Carlos C. Groppa, editor of
> >the magazine Tango Reporter.
>
> Find high-speed net deals comparison-shop your local providers here.
>
>

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:08:28 +0000
From: Dani _ <dani2_tanguera@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

I think the couple on the cover of the book are performers from "Tango
Pasion". An excellent show which has been performing in Europe for several
years and has also been in Australia.

Rick said

>Hi Oleh,
>Hmmm, that move is very common here in the States. Isn't it the
>same worldwide ?? Beginners usually wind up landing on the floor,
>but I'm getting the hang of it ;o)
>R
>PS: Totally kidding... Holy smokes, what a move! Love to see it.
> Wonder who the follow is, she's gorgeous..
>
>

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:33:38 +0000
From: Dani _ <dani2_tanguera@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

I just checked a photo I have and I believe the couple on the cover are
Monica Romero and Omar Ocampo, from Tango Pasion (as I mentioned before).

Saludos

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:37:52 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango/Performance tango

I have a confession to make.

Recently I was asked to do a tango demonstration on New Years Eve. This
was a big deal, and there were going to be a lot of spectators as well
as the possibility of press.

So, I had a dilemma. I needed to choose a partner, and I only had 3
weeks. Who among the local tango dancers would do? Unfortunately, there
are only a few who can do this "performance tango" well, and they were
unavailable. There are a lot who can do a fine tango at milongas, but as
Lydia points out, who wants to watch social dancing at a milonga? OK, so
I could have taught them a lot of show moves, but I was worried that I
might risk ruining them for the social floor. There are those who only
do performance tango, and I didn't want to reinforce their idea that
they are tangoing well. (We also have an epidemic of floor-staring in
this town, and that habit is notoriously hard to break)

So, who did I choose? I chose a ballroom dancer and taught him a tango
routine.

It was rather easy. It only took about 2 practices/week, it included
lifts and trick moves, and the performance was great.

Of course, there's fallout. This poor ballroom dancer was dismayed to
find out that what he learned was useless to him on the tango dance
floor. Although he could be a great tango dancer, he will have to start
over. If he comes back to tango.

Then there's my conscience. I know teachers who teach this stuff first,
and who deceive their students into thinking they are dancing real
tango. The students really think they are getting somewhere, as they
dance far apart, and lead and follow their never-ending ochos and unlead
boleos. Then one day they wake up - they've spent weeks learning moves
that are useless. They will have to start over. I have resisted this and
start my students learning connected walking. Yet I lured in a whole lot
of new students who will expect to learn ganchos the first night.

PLEASE NOTE! This is not an indictment of ballroom dancers, who I find
can be taught real tango easily if you stay away from the show moves.
However, this is too rarely done.

Lois Donnay, Minneapolis
www.mndance.com
612.822.8436

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of TangoLady@AOL.COM
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 4:28 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] New book about the Tango
>
>
> Oleh wrote:
>
> >If cover of this book
> >(https://images.amazon.com/images/P/0786414065.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
> >accurately represents the content, think twice. I hope the
> tango in the
> >United States has not stooped this low.
>
>
> I know a great majority of female Tango dancers would love to
> be able to do that move. It is beautiful and very depictive
> of the Tango Shows we get in the US and in Europe/Asia.
> Fortunately or unfortunately that is the export Tango, and a
> lot of us fell in love with when Tango Argentino came to the
> US. Back then social Tango was hardly known in the US. Many
> other shows followed and still the moves and endings of
> routines were very dramatic and similar.
>
> In my book that is called show biz. Sorry but a lot of
> people don't want to pay $40 to $75 dollars (depending on
> seating at a theater) to see social dancing at a Milonga.
> They want action.

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:28:24 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango/Performance tango

Lois wrote:

>Then there's my conscience. I know teachers who teach this stuff first,
>and who deceive their students into thinking they are dancing real
>tango. The students really think they are getting somewhere, as they
>dance far apart, and lead and follow their never-ending ochos and unlead
>boleos. Then one day they wake up - they've spent weeks learning moves
>that are useless. They will have to start over. I have resisted this and
>start my students learning connected walking. Yet I lured in a whole lot
>of new students who will expect to learn ganchos the first night.
>...
>Lois Donnay, Minneapolis
>www.mndance.com
>612.822.8436

This could be seen as a clever business strategy.

It is common enough in either Ballroom or Tango.

That is:

Show your beginners a bunch of vocabulary that they can't possibly
succeed with. Since they will never figure out how to dance from it,
they will have to keep coming back to you for more vocabulary. This
will create a hunger for more and more fancy steps (filtering away
those who "just want to dance).

Also, by instilling so many bad habits, they will have no choice but
to come back for hundreds of hours of privates in order to get fixed.

This goes along with the strategy of Performances and Showcases:

Set up a showcase, and your students will frantically take lots of
privates to prepare. Charge them for the costume, charge them for an
expensive dinner, charge them to dance with you, charge their parents
and friends. There's gold in them thar hills.

One additional consequence...these strategies cause more of the men
to get frustrated and quit. Women are more likely to pay to have
coaches train them up. Women are more likely to pay just to get the
experience of dancing with a great leader. With fewer men in your
community, the women are more desperate to come take more privates.

The most unfortunate aspect of teaching all this show stuff is the
moment these beginner show-boaters show up at a crowded milonga. They
can't navigate the floor, none of the good dancers will dance with
them, and they haven't a clue as to getting from here to there.


In contrast...

Sure, good tango requires practice, time and private lessons help a
lot. But, the basic rhythms and walking steps of social tango are not
so hard. Get them up dancing socially, hearing the music and feeling
comfortable. Then those who wish to do fancier material can go on.

--

Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:03:17 -0800
From: David Hodgson <DHodgson@TANGO777.COM>
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango/Performance tango

Now hold on there Tom, Why show them any vocabulary at all and just what
does this word "Vocabulary" mean. How about just have people learn to listen
to their bodies and learn to listen to a partner.
Most people come in with some preconceived Idea of what this dance is. From
what I have seen most people who start Tango, go along for a bit. Then at
some point said to themselves "what am I doing".

Like that guy at the end of the movie "Tango". Damn if he does not move like
a baboon with two clubbed feet. And the way he holds that knife.....Like a
Girl...... More than likely learned from a ballroom studio..........
OOOppps.....hold on...my bad...That was my dancing I was talking about.
(Your really good Mr. Junior...).

In a way for the teachers it is a good business model for making money....
In the words of George Carlin "If you nail two things together that have
never been nailed together before, Some Shmuck will buy it".

My2C
David



-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 9:28 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] New book about the Tango/Performance tango


Lois wrote:

>Then there's my conscience. I know teachers who teach this stuff first,
>and who deceive their students into thinking they are dancing real
>tango. The students really think they are getting somewhere, as they
>dance far apart, and lead and follow their never-ending ochos and unlead
>boleos. Then one day they wake up - they've spent weeks learning moves
>that are useless. They will have to start over. I have resisted this and
>start my students learning connected walking. Yet I lured in a whole lot
>of new students who will expect to learn ganchos the first night.
>...
>Lois Donnay, Minneapolis
>www.mndance.com
>612.822.8436

This could be seen as a clever business strategy.

It is common enough in either Ballroom or Tango.

That is:

Show your beginners a bunch of vocabulary that they can't possibly
succeed with. Since they will never figure out how to dance from it,
they will have to keep coming back to you for more vocabulary. This
will create a hunger for more and more fancy steps (filtering away
those who "just want to dance).

Also, by instilling so many bad habits, they will have no choice but
to come back for hundreds of hours of privates in order to get fixed.

This goes along with the strategy of Performances and Showcases:

Set up a showcase, and your students will frantically take lots of
privates to prepare. Charge them for the costume, charge them for an
expensive dinner, charge them to dance with you, charge their parents
and friends. There's gold in them thar hills.

One additional consequence...these strategies cause more of the men
to get frustrated and quit. Women are more likely to pay to have
coaches train them up. Women are more likely to pay just to get the
experience of dancing with a great leader. With fewer men in your
community, the women are more desperate to come take more privates.

The most unfortunate aspect of teaching all this show stuff is the
moment these beginner show-boaters show up at a crowded milonga. They
can't navigate the floor, none of the good dancers will dance with
them, and they haven't a clue as to getting from here to there.


In contrast...

Sure, good tango requires practice, time and private lessons help a
lot. But, the basic rhythms and walking steps of social tango are not
so hard. Get them up dancing socially, hearing the music and feeling
comfortable. Then those who wish to do fancier material can go on.

--

Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:18:20 -0500
From: bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM
Subject: Re: New book about the Tango

Rick McGarrey wrote:

By the way, the couple on the cover looks like Alejandra Arrue, and her husband Sergio Natario. Ironically, if that's who it is, I don't believe either one has actually ever danced in the U.S. (I could be wrong). Alejandra Arrue was one of Celia Blanco's students, along with Alejandra Todaro (who only dances socially).

Actually, Rick, they were just recently here in Miami doing workshops and performing for a couple of weeks. Great couple, nice as can be, and lots of personality on the floor.

Nicole
Miami