5265 New generation of milongueros
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:46:31 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
It doesn't exist and never will.
I laugh every time I read someone being advertised on Tango-A as one of the
new generation of milongueros. With a few years of classes, they use the
title of teacher and milonguero. Some are hired sight-unseen for workshops
in the United States. It's used by those who don't even understand what it
means to be a milonguero. It has become an acceptable title with tango's
world-wide popularity.
Years of classes from dozens of teachers will never make a milonguero out of
anyone.
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:57:07 -0300
From: Robin Tara <rtara@maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
To: janice kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>, Tango-L
Hey Janis,
I think there are a few. But just a few - men under 65 who might actually be
able to carry on the real dance of the milongas. You know who they are.
There the guys who don't dance with every new hot chickie who comes too the
milonga. They're the ones who watch - really watch for the women who dance.
They're looking for someone they can mesh with. Someone who moves to the
music and with her partner. If she does any adornos, they're few, subtle, in
the music and she doesn't do the same thing every time. Whether she's 30 or
60 doesn't matter. When a milonguero finds a partner for a tanda, he wants
to please her. He is gracious, playful, gentle and giving when he dances and
between the dances. He walks (preferably dances) his partner to her chair.
There are a few of these guys in the younger generation, thank heavens. Most
of them do not teach or take classes - they dance.
Robin
> I laugh every time I read someone being advertised on Tango-A as one of the
> new generation of milongueros.
>
>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Iron Logic <railogic@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
Janis is right.
The milonguero became a milonguero by dancing for long time, his dance is refined by the number of miles around milonga ..and the tens of years.
Now he has become old, the strength is not there, he can no longer perform all those cool moves he was so good at , youth is gone. The age has taken the toll. But the dance is there, it is the cream .
........
Trying to be a "milonguero"s may be a meaningless persuit by definition. If you know how to dance, have a liking for music, dance for as many years as "milonguero's did, you will become a milonguero, it is inevitable.
IL
Robin Tara <rtara@maine.rr.com> wrote:
Hey Janis,
I think there are a few. But just a few - men under 65 who might actually be
able to carry on the real dance of the milongas. You know who they are.
There the guys who don't dance with every new hot chickie who comes too the
milonga. They're the ones who watch - really watch for the women who dance.
They're looking for someone they can mesh with. Someone who moves to the
music and with her partner. If she does any adornos, they're few, subtle, in
the music and she doesn't do the same thing every time. Whether she's 30 or
60 doesn't matter. When a milonguero finds a partner for a tanda, he wants
to please her. He is gracious, playful, gentle and giving when he dances and
between the dances. He walks (preferably dances) his partner to her chair.
There are a few of these guys in the younger generation, thank heavens. Most
of them do not teach or take classes - they dance.
Robin
> I laugh every time I read someone being advertised on Tango-A as one of the
> new generation of milongueros.
>
>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:52:01 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Just to bring another viewpoint to this discussion, let's define what's meant by "milonguero". If the definition of milonguero is: and old Argentinean man over 65 0r 70 years old who dances tango very well but very subtly and has never taken a tango lesson in his long life of frequenting milongas. Then indeed it's impossible for anyone outside of a handful of guys in BsAs to be a "milonguero".
OTOH, if one looks at other definitions, such as the Lunfardo Dictionary from Todotango, other conclusions may be achieved. To wit, the Lunfardo dictionary defines milonguero thusly:
MILONGUERO/RA
(pop.) Cantor de Milongas// aficionado o concurrente
asiduo a los bailes populares// bailar?n de Milongas// chismoso//
embustero// intrigante.
In English, it says: singer of milogas// aficionado, frequenter of popular dances//Dancer of milongas// gossip// fabricator of lies// manipulator, conspirator.
Obviously, the second set of definitions would make room for a lot of people to become or to claim to be milongueros. I think that the term "milonguero" has been appropriated mostly by non Argentinean tango dancers to define a dancer of unusual skill and with unusual characteristics. I think it's rather facile to grab a lunfardo term and change it to serve as a particular definition, but it's rather disturbing in a way because it still retains some of the original parts of the definition such as a frequenter to popular dances or a dancer at milongas. This means that people who can legitimately claim the title of "milonguero/ra" as per the original lunfardo definition, are denied by those who use the newer definition.
Cheers,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:15:04 -0700
> From: railogic@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
>
> Janis is right.
>
> The milonguero became a milonguero by dancing for long time, his dance is refined by the number of miles around milonga ..and the tens of years.
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:55:34 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
As far as I understand,
Milonguero is the one for whom dancing is the most important activity.
In the past they were poor. What else you would expect from a person who
spends all ( not necessarily free ) time at milongas instead of
hard-working?
I do not think it counts for the quality of the dance. It counts for the way
of life.
Use this word for marketing, in any sense, is ridiculous. Master of the
Dance, and Milonguero are not synonyms. Of course, "an average milonguero"
is dancing better than other, normal people. Teachers and performers, even
good ones, who do not dance at milongas are not milongueros. I would say
than being a teacher moves you farther away from the name "Milonguero",
since it is becoming a business - and you can not waste much time just
dancing.
So, Janis, the more you market you friends, the more they spend time
teaching, the less Milongueros they are..
Just a free flow of thoughts,
Igor Polk.
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:09:08 +1000
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0162239BE3@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
Yes, partly improving is about working on the right things and partly it is about miles on the dance floor. So if you want to be a milonguero I suggest a simple program. First, take a few lessons from Susana Miller or someone else from her or a similar school of dancing, the people who have made a life time's study on how milongueros dance and can actually communicate how to do it. Then throw away/sell your car, bike, train ticket and instead find a willing follower, stick an ipod bud in each ear and lead her from home to work every day. Doing this with your wife is good because you want to spend more quality time together anyway right? On the first day just do walking and then the second, ochos and alternate. Throw in a few turns from time to time. Allowing for (in my case) 10km each way that adds up to a powerful lot of miles. After a couple of weeks you will probably be professional standard and can open your own tango school
:-).
Victor Bennetts
-----Original Message-----
From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Iron Logic
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 6:15 AM
To: Tango-L
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
Janis is right.
The milonguero became a milonguero by dancing for long time, his dance is refined by the number of miles around milonga ..and the tens of years.
Now he has become old, the strength is not there, he can no longer perform all those cool moves he was so good at , youth is gone. The age has taken the toll. But the dance is there, it is the cream .
........
Trying to be a "milonguero"s may be a meaningless persuit by definition. If you know how to dance, have a liking for music, dance for as many years as "milonguero's did, you will become a milonguero, it is inevitable.
IL
Robin Tara <rtara@maine.rr.com> wrote:
Hey Janis,
I think there are a few. But just a few - men under 65 who might actually be
able to carry on the real dance of the milongas. You know who they are.
There the guys who don't dance with every new hot chickie who comes too the
milonga. They're the ones who watch - really watch for the women who dance.
They're looking for someone they can mesh with. Someone who moves to the
music and with her partner. If she does any adornos, they're few, subtle, in
the music and she doesn't do the same thing every time. Whether she's 30 or
60 doesn't matter. When a milonguero finds a partner for a tanda, he wants
to please her. He is gracious, playful, gentle and giving when he dances and
between the dances. He walks (preferably dances) his partner to her chair.
There are a few of these guys in the younger generation, thank heavens. Most
of them do not teach or take classes - they dance.
Robin
> I laugh every time I read someone being advertised on Tango-A as one of the
> new generation of milongueros.
>
>
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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:01:12 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
Iron Logic wrote:
<The milonguero became a milonguero by dancing for long time, his dance is
refined by the number of miles around milonga ..and the tens of years. < >
If you know how to dance, have a liking for music, dance for as many years
as milongueros did, you will become a milonguero, it is inevitable.>
It's not the number of years dancing that made a milonguero.
It's more than knowing how to dance tango to be a milonguero.
It's more than liking the music.
A milonguero learned to dance by watching other milongueros; he is
self-taught with his own style.
A milonguero lived for the night to dance in the confiterias of downtown
Buenos Aires.
A milonguero respected the codes that were passed on to him by other
milongueros.
A milonguero knew the orchestras and could dance well with any woman.
Miguel Angel Balbi had four uncles who were all milongueros. Miguel began
dancing at the age of 11, and his Uncle Carlos took him to a downtown
confiteria on his 14th birthday to dance for the first time in public. From
then on, he went regularly at Club Oeste, Salon Agusteo, Salon Italia Unita,
Salon Region Leonesa, and Club Almagro where he observed the milongueros.
At 16, he was going every night until dawn to dance. When he was about 17,
the milongueros told Miguel Angel that he is a milonguero. He will
celebrate his 70th birthday on November 29.
The way to really understand what it means to be a milonguero is to talk
with one and ask him questions. That's why I'm organizing a milonguero
conference.
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:46:28 -0300 (ART)
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
To: Tango-L <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
The Milonguero belongs with the Marlboro Man and the Jeep, they are figments of imagination.
Although you may find fully functioning, real remnants of either, they truly belong to a different society, culture and time.
But this is not bad, there's pleasure to be found in dreaming and role playing...
Lucia
El Mundial de Rugby 2007
Las ?ltimas noticias en Yahoo! Deportes:
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:51:04 +0800
From: Kace <kace@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
To: Tango-L <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
Janis Kenyon wrote:
>The way to really understand what it means to be a milonguero is to talk
>with one and ask him questions. That's why I'm organizing a milonguero
>conference.
Lucia wrote:
>The Milonguero belongs with the Marlboro Man and the Jeep, they are
>figments of imagination.
Do we know anything about the milongueros, besides the obvious
facts they are old, started dancing young, and are self-taught?
This is where truth gives way to mythology and here-say.
As long as we are projecting our own interpretations on them,
we are just going round in circle.
This debate will never end as long as nobody can pin down hard
evidence about the "milongueros" -- what they know, how they
think and feel, and what they have done in glorious details.
I applaud those who made it their quest to understand the
milongueros. But the objective of that quest must be to
lead to video footage and first person interviews which
can become documentation.
Without these primary data, it can only exacerbate the
confusion over the "milonguero" identity.
kace
tangosingapore.com
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:35:01 -0600
From: "David Hodgson" <DHodgson@TangoLabyrinth.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
Kace:
You have really made some very good and clear comments in this post.
Thank you.
I will add something else about the "milongueros" (enter mythos here
[______]). That I believe will compliment what you have written.
What are you (the Lead) doing out there on the dance floor.
Where are you leading the Follow.
Are you listening.
What is private between you and the Follow/ what is shared with the rest of
the room.
David Hodgson
-----Original Message-----
From: tango-l-bounces@MIT.EDU [mailto:tango-l-bounces@MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of
Kace
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:51 PM
To: Tango-L
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New generation of milongueros
Janis Kenyon wrote:
>The way to really understand what it means to be a milonguero is to talk
>with one and ask him questions. That's why I'm organizing a milonguero
>conference.
Lucia wrote:
>The Milonguero belongs with the Marlboro Man and the Jeep, they are
>figments of imagination.
Do we know anything about the milongueros, besides the obvious
facts they are old, started dancing young, and are self-taught?
This is where truth gives way to mythology and here-say.
As long as we are projecting our own interpretations on them,
we are just going round in circle.
This debate will never end as long as nobody can pin down hard
evidence about the "milongueros" -- what they know, how they
think and feel, and what they have done in glorious details.
I applaud those who made it their quest to understand the
milongueros. But the objective of that quest must be to
lead to video footage and first person interviews which
can become documentation.
Without these primary data, it can only exacerbate the
confusion over the "milonguero" identity.
kace
tangosingapore.com
