2334 Tango-L New topic
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:54:28 -0500
From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@ULSTER.NET>
Subject: Tango-L New topic
OK.Just to get back to the topic of tango ---
Was wondering about the etiquette on this matter concerning beginning
dancers-
You've been dancing a few months- can make your way around the floor
without tripping or looking too ridiculous, sometimes you even look like
you know what you're doing. You've experienced "the zone" and look for
good dancers to partner with because you know one of the best ways to
learn is to dance "up", with someone more experienced. But the moves
you've been learning- all those seemingly necessary steps and figures
that make tango, tango, are not second nature yet.
Now you're at a milonga and a really good dancer is looking your way
wanting to dance.
Do you tell the prospective partner that you're a beginner -or just leap
into it and hope he/she doesn't get too frustrated when you get caught
up in a step or don't respond to certain leads?
The general experience seems to be that if you say you are a beginner,
the experienced dancer will often keep it_ too_ simple, rather than
leading into basic figures which you may already know and are looking
forward to dance.
I suppose the beginner can recite the moves that they can do..but does
that put a damper on the dance?
What would the more experienced dancer prefer in this case?
Also, can a tango ever be too simple?
Just wondering what your thoughts are....
thanks~
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:15:30 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Tango-L New topic (
Ilene wrote:
> Was wondering about the etiquette on this matter concerning beginning
> dancers-
>
> Now you're at a milonga and a really good dancer is looking your way
> wanting to dance.
> Do you tell the prospective partner that you're a beginner -or just leap
> into it and hope he/she doesn't get too frustrated when you get caught
> up in a step or don't respond to certain leads?
> The general experience seems to be that if you say you are a beginner,
> the experienced dancer will often keep it_ too_ simple, rather than
> leading into basic figures which you may already know and are looking
> forward to dance.
> I suppose the beginner can recite the moves that they can do..but does
> that put a damper on the dance?
The general etiquette at milongas is that you do not talk while you are
dancing.
A bit of background information on "a really good dancer":
if he is a really good dancer, he has probably taken time to watch you dance
before he decides to ask you to dance. Even if he hasn't, there is no need
for you to tell him that you are a beginner- he will notice that within
seconds. Tango is not a dance where beforehand you talk the whole thing
through with your partner and decide on what you are going to do. (this
happens in stage tango only), so, no need to tell him about your repertory.
The whole thing about tango is that the man can lead you to do things.
Sometimes you do not quite know what he means, at other times maybe he will
lead you into a move you have never done before and you find yourself doing
it. A "really good dancer" knows all that, and can easily sense what you can
do and what you can't. If he wants to play it safe, and has little
imagination (but then he would actually not be a really good dancer) he may
lead you around the floor in a chain of salidas and some other very simple
steps like a parada here and there. But if he has the fine tuned skills of a
good leader, he can do more than that. For exemple, if he starts a move, and
notices you cannot follow, he can alter the move into something else without
interrupting the dance. Or he can try and push your limit and make you do
something that was just a little beyond your ability before.
It is the man's job in tango to make the woman look beautiful.
Astrid
P.S.
Be wary of those who ask you to dance just *because* you are a beginner and
they are looking for victims to teach and lecture, skold, praise and
generally patronise during the dance. There are those who dream of being a
teacher but don't have what it takes, so they hunt for unsuspecting
beginners to take on as "students" (without asking them whether they want to
be taught) at milongas, and abuse the dance as a chance for a 10 minute free
lesson. Ask the intermediate women which ones of them men to avoid, they
usually know.
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:32:54 -0500
From: Michael B Ditkoff <tangomaniac@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango-L New topic
Ilene:
A good leader should never get frustrated. Things go wrong even between
two good dancers.
As for telling a man you're a beginner- the leader should be able to
figure it out by "feeling" your
body and adjust the dance accordingly. Do you move smoothly, can you
pivot etc? I've found that
when women tell me they are beginners, it's because of their own
nervousness, anxiety and
lack of self-confidence. I've stopped counting the number of times a
woman has said "I'm warning you! I'm a beginner." I do my best to put her
at ease. "Well, we all have to start somewhere." Usually,
she relaxes, her shoulders come down from being hunched, and she does
very well, better than she expected.
A woman can tell when she's dancing with a beginner when she feels pulled
or pushed, whipped
through ochos like she is a broom, etc. Beginners put so much pressure on
themselves, it's
impossible for themselves to reach their expectations that night at the
milonga. It takes many months to dance tango-- POORLY!!
Michael
Washington, DC
Recovered from the Washington DC Marathon and getting
rested for the NY Tango Festival in July
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:54:28 -0500 Ilene Marder <imhmedia@ULSTER.NET>
writes:
>
> Was wondering about the etiquette on this matter concerning >
beginning> dancers-
>
> You've been dancing a few months- can make your way around the >
floor> without tripping or looking too ridiculous, sometimes you even
look > like> you know what you're doing. But the > moves> you've been
learning- all those seemingly necessary steps and > figures> that make
tango, tango, are not second nature yet.
> Now you're at a milonga and a really good dancer is looking your >
way> wanting to dance.
> Do you tell the prospective partner that you're a beginner -or just >
leap> into it and hope he/she doesn't get too frustrated when you get >
caught> up in a step or don't respond to certain leads?>
> Just wondering what your thoughts are....
> thanks~
>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:39:19 -0500
From: "Holton, David A." <DHolton@KFORCE.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango-L New topic
Ilene wrote:
> Was wondering about the etiquette on this matter concerning beginning
> dancers-
>
> Now you're at a milonga and a really good dancer is looking your way
> wanting to dance.
> Do you tell the prospective partner that you're a beginner -or just
leap
> into it and hope he/she doesn't get too frustrated when you get caught
> up in a step or don't respond to certain leads?
> The general experience seems to be that if you say you are a beginner,
> the experienced dancer will often keep it_ too_ simple, rather than
> leading into basic figures which you may already know and are looking
> forward to dance.
> I suppose the beginner can recite the moves that they can do..but does
> that put a damper on the dance?
I don't say too much on this list, but when I was a beginner reading
other posts about beginners really helped me out a lot. I agree with
Astrid and Michael: dancing with an experienced leader you should not
have to say you are a beginner. A lot of beginning women do tell me
that, and I don't mind it. Like Michael, I try to put them at easy
since I'm not that great a dancer myself. My general rule for me is to
start out with basics if I have never danced with a particular woman
before. As the dance progresses, I will try out more advanced things to
see where her comfort zone is. Her reaction is also a good way for me
to get feedback on my lead: if she doesn't get it, I may try again with
a more definite lead. I'm not one to be strict about the no talking
rule while dancing, but usually the only thing I ever say while dancing
is "relax." A lot of beginner women are very tense and nervous, and it
translates into my body and movement. If I can get her to relax and
just move, then we both enjoy it more. If course I also keep in mind
that I may be making her tense, so first I try to make sure my leads are
clearer and more purposeful.
The main things I learned from this list when I first joined, was to
"never teach" at the Milongas (not that I volunteer "advise" anyway).
And, that if the woman doesn't do what I wanted, then there must be
something wrong with my lead.
So, the final thought is: no, you should not have to tell a partner that
you are a beginner. If he has any kind of integrity as a dancer, he
will figure it out and adjust his dancing so that it is enjoyable for
both of you.
Dave Holton
St. Pete., FL
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:17:24 -0800
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango-L New topic
--- Ilene Marder <imhmedia@ULSTER.NET> wrote:
> Do you tell the prospective partner that you're a
> beginner -or just leap
> into it and hope he/she doesn't get too frustrated
> when you get caught
> up in a step or don't respond to certain leads?
Is there something wrong with admitting that you're a
beginner? If it makes YOU feel more comfortable, then
go right ahead. It always makes a nice icebreaker for
talking after the dance (how long have you been
dancing, who's your teacher, etc). As Michael &
Astrid pointed out, experienced leads have ways of
knowing testing your abilities.
However, dancing is knowing more than a bunch of
steps. It is about a connection. Until they reach a
certain level, many women easily overrate themselves
on their dance ability (myself included). If a leader
is not dancing the vocabulary you think you know, he
may not be feeling a connection from you that limits
his ability to lead you.
Happy dancing!
Trina de Pittsburgh
waiting for Michael to arrive...
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:48:38 -0800
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango-L New topic (
> The whole thing about tango is that the man can lead
> you to do things.
> Sometimes you do not quite know what he means, at
> other times maybe he will
> lead you into a move you have never done before and
> you find yourself doing
> it.
I agree wholeheartedly with you Astrid.
Also, the important thing for a beginning follower to
remember is to not analyse what steps you are taking.
Just relax and follow, take each step with confidence
even if it feels new or you're not really sure where
it is going. If you relax, wait for the leader and
take each step without hesitation, then even if you
are wrong, your leader knows exactly where you are and
can adjust.
As Astrid said, it is the leader's job to make the
follower look beautiful. Focus more on your heart and
not on your feet. Give your leader a warm embrace,
trust him, relax and enjoy yourself. People, leaders
or followers, usually would rather dance with someone
with a lot of heart than someone with perfect
technique and no feeling.
Have fun,
Rose
Portland, OR
