5581  New wawe is coming and also perhaps "the Lead

Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:10:27 +0100
From: Bertil Nestorius <bertil36@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New wawe is coming and also perhaps "the Lead
pyramid"
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>


This is a very interessting subjekt (the lead of the cross) even though I find Mila and Korey fantastic dancers I don't agree 100% with how the want their students to lead the cross. They speak on the video about leading the spine (or center of weight) on the left or the right side of the standing leg and in this way lead the cross or another back step. This method is good if you have a very good sence of your body, but is definatly not a beginner subject.

What for me is more important is that the method above(I've been using it aswell) doesn't take any use of of the stuctures that the Tango has.

The very most important stucture in the Tango is the Molinette (front-side -back-side), found for the follower in every Giro.As a mather of fact, all stucturers Tango are for the followers.

You find, if you break the 8-step base appart, that it also is in this stucture(a Giro traversing in the room) atleast untill the cross. That makes the cross nothing else as as small front step. With this in mind it is easy to find an much easier(in sence of demand of body awarness) way of leading the cross. Since the the cross is an front step, the step before must be an side step (or better an open step) an hence schould be lead with the schoulder in the same line as the feet, as opposed the our normal forward and backward walking where the schoulders are opposite to our feet. That makes that when I don't want to lead the cross I lead the 4th step(or equivalent) with the schouldes opposite to the feet.

This is nothing but my 5 cent to the topic of Leading the cross, but I hope I have expressed myself clearly and would like to know what others are thinking about this.

Bertil

> Do you think the woman is leading here? No, she is simply demonstating
> what the leader has to do to make the follower cross. She's not suggesting
> that "she " is the leader in the dance. Although this is described as a
> beginning class, many leaders who consider themselves way beyond
> beginners still don't know how to effectively lead the cross and could learn
> something valuable here.
>
>> This is THE Tango dance wave of the future...
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmqGUamkOHE
>>..get ready for it...it teaches by hypnosis and it's precedentwas the
>> Emporer's clothes...Soon, the lady will lead as much as the man and it's
>> anybody's guess "who is leading now"...

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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:03:53 +1100
From: Myk Dowling <politas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New wawe is coming and also perhaps "the Lead
pyramid"
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Bertil Nestorius wrote:

> This is a very interessting subjekt (the lead of the cross) even though

> I find Mila and Korey fantastic dancers I don't agree 100% with how the

> want their students to lead the cross. They speak on the video about
> leading the spine (or center of weight) on the left or the right side
> of the standing leg and in this way lead the cross or another back step.
> This method is good if you have a very good sence of your body, but is
> definatly not a beginner subject.

Depends on the beginner. For people who _do_ have a good sense of their
body, it is much better to teach them right from the start. Don't assume
all your beginners are as bad as each other.

> The very most important stucture in the Tango is the Molinette (front-
> side -back-side), found for the follower in every Giro.As a mather of
> fact, all stucturers Tango are for the followers.

I think it's far more important for a follower to be receptive to the
leader's suggestion than to be thinking in terms of what "should" come next.

> You find, if you break the 8-step base appart, that it also is in this
> stucture(a Giro traversing in the room) atleast untill the cross. That
> makes the cross nothing else as as small front step. With this in mind
> it is easy to find an much easier(in sence of demand of body awarness)
> way of leading the cross. Since the the cross is an front step, the
> step before must be an side step (or better an open step) an hence
> schould be lead with the schoulder in the same line as the feet, as
> opposed the our normal forward and backward walking where the
> schoulders are opposite to our feet. That makes that when I don't want
> to lead the cross I lead the 4th step(or equivalent) with the
> schouldes opposite to the feet.

You can lead something like a cross by leading a side step followed by a
crossing front step, but it is an entirely different motion, flow and
look to a cross lead by guiding the centre of balance to the outside of
the standing leg. I do both under different circumstances.

What you describe makes the cross the result of a final pivot after the
moving foot is placed, where a cross lead by guiding the centre of
weight has the moving foot arrive already in the cross position.

(And from a fundamental perspective, I abhor any discussion of tango
technique that attempts to use the "8-step base" as a form of evidence.
The 8-step base is a teaching tool, not a matter of technique.)

--
Myk,
in Canberra