4725  No moves heeps?

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:08:35 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: [Tango-L] No moves heeps?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>

I disagree that the woman should keep her hips from moving.

(1) It is a physical impossibility
(2) Look at the dancers in the milongas: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM
moves their hips.

So, I'm not sure what you actually mean, because it can't be
literally be: "no moves heeps".

I think sometimes a teacher says something, and then all their
students continue saying the same thing irregardless of whether it is
true or not. The toe-first is another example. Watch what the teacher
does, sometimes it is the opposite of what they say.


HIPS IN TANGO

Salsa has a specific hip motion. Tango does also, but not the same
one. Certainly it is a lot less.

Changing weight in tango involves a bunch of different things, and
hip movement is one of them.

If you are up on your hips, and trying to keep them from moving, then
you are creating a series of difficulties:

(1) Balance is harder
(2) Shock absorption is harder
(3) Going up on your hips leads to stiff knees, making stick-legs.
(4) Follower feels stiff or choppy to the leader
(5) Makes it hard to dance milonga tras-pie
(6) Makes it hard to do a smooth cross.
(7) Makes it harder to do shooth ochos
(8) Makes it harder to do fast boleos

Obviously, these issues are easier to explain in person than over email.



On Jan 25, 2007, at 1:51 PM, Deby Novitz wrote:

> Janis I do not want to disagree with you publicly, but I too live
> here,
> and I am out quite a bit in the milongas, especially now that
> almost all
> my English students are on vacation. ...
>
> First of all complaining about young dancers moving their hips and
> shoulders. So do the old ones. So do the not so young ones. So
> do the
> not so old ones. This is not a new thing. It is an old thing. It is
> called bad posture, bad habits. Especially if they came from
> salsa. If
> you don't have a good teacher to correct this, then you continue
> dancing
> this way. I came to tango from salsa. It took me over a year to
> break
> what I call the "salsa hip."
>
> Today when Fernando and I were teaching a student from Canada she
> moved
> her hips and shoulders. It was how she learned to dance in
> Canada. She
> knew it wasn't right when she came here. In our lesson with her we
> concentrated on her posture and axis. Where to put her weight. It
> was
> the first time anyone had "correctly" addressed these issues with her.
> She and a few of our other students noticed and have commented to
> us how
> many women dance here with their butt sticking out. Another form
> of bad
> posture. I suppose if you didn't know better as one of my students
> didn't, you would think this is how they dance in Buenos Aires.

Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:26:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] No moves heeps?

I agree with Tom. But there are some additional details to
a woman's walk. In working with our Alexander Technique
teacher, we've developed a backward walk in which the
extension of the leg is a result of the spiraling
(contrabody) action of the spine (spine is attached to the
sacrum which is attached to the pelvis which is connected
to the leg).

One advantage is that it uses less muscle compared to
extending the leg without the contrabody (which uses the
thigh muscle). A second is that the man has an easier time
feeling what leg the woman is on. A third is that it makes
coming back to neutral so easy and pivots very fluid.
Also, the look is much more fluid and graceful.

So, it's not just a drop, but a drop AND rotation of the
hips. The drop comes from relaxing the lower muscles in
the back. The rotation and drop of the hip of the woman is
caused by the drop and rotation of the man's hip if she is
relaxed in her lower back. One can feel it in apilado,
though I'm not sure if this would translate the same way in
an open frame.

Accompanying the dropped hip is, of course, a natural bend
in the knee. Men, we have discovered, also need to be more
aware of the separation of the leg and the pelvis at the
leg socket. Otherwise, they have difficulty with dropping
the hip to cause the woman's hip to drop and rotate.

Robert Hauk was great about teaching us the details as it
relates to tango.

Trini de Pittsburgh


--- Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org> wrote:

> I disagree that the woman should keep her hips from
> moving.
>
> (1) It is a physical impossibility
> (2) Look at the dancers in the milongas: EVERY SINGLE ONE
> OF THEM
> moves their hips.
>
> So, I'm not sure what you actually mean, because it can't
> be
> literally be: "no moves heeps".
>
> I think sometimes a teacher says something, and then all
> their
> students continue saying the same thing irregardless of
> whether it is
> true or not. The toe-first is another example. Watch what
> the teacher
> does, sometimes it is the opposite of what they say.
>
>
> HIPS IN TANGO
>
> Salsa has a specific hip motion. Tango does also, but not
> the same
> one. Certainly it is a lot less.
>
> Changing weight in tango involves a bunch of different
> things, and
> hip movement is one of them.
>
> If you are up on your hips, and trying to keep them from
> moving, then
> you are creating a series of difficulties:
>
> (1) Balance is harder
> (2) Shock absorption is harder
> (3) Going up on your hips leads to stiff knees, making
> stick-legs.
> (4) Follower feels stiff or choppy to the leader
> (5) Makes it hard to dance milonga tras-pie
> (6) Makes it hard to do a smooth cross.
> (7) Makes it harder to do shooth ochos
> (8) Makes it harder to do fast boleos
>
> Obviously, these issues are easier to explain in person
> than over email.
>
>

PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/




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