2117  And now the Buenos Aires milongas are syndicated

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:12:16 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: And now the Buenos Aires milongas are syndicated

Well ... well ... well ... , my friends from Tango list

What a surprise , to know that an Association of Organizers of milongas have been registered as a formal non profit organization , in Buenos Aires.

The registration was made on August 19th, 2003 , but I just noticed their "existence" due to their inclusion into the site of the VI Festival de Tango.

The Milonga Association has their site, but is still progressing, there is no english section already . However there is a list of milongas on line , that are members of the association, that I will include now here

I am still surprised, don t know what to say . It seems a good new, to organize themselves . There were some milongas in the past that made a kind of " Circuit of renowned Buenos Aires Milongas" with a brochure . Maybe this is the next step, to get formal and cooperate one each other.

It has to be good for milongueros and milongueras . There is already a kind of "Manifesto" entitled " Why to go to the milonga/ Porqui ir a la milonga " , I am trying to get the spanish copy to translate it for you my friends.

It is a good question , Why to go to the milonga ? : My first answer as milonga organizer would be " otherwise, what are we supposed to do without you milongueros/as" :):):)

Warm regards
Alberto Gesualdi
Buenos Aires

official site of Milonga organizers Association https://asocdemilongas.com.ar

the site include the link to this milongas , so I think that they are members of the association

Milongas Online

Malevaje
La Trastienda
El beso
Lo de Celia
Niqo Bien
Sunderland Club
Confiteria Ideal
La Calesita
Porteno y bailarin
La Nacional
Centro Armenio
Plaza Dorrego




?Buscas un auto?
!Mas de 4000 clasificados todos los dmas!
Usados - 0 km - Vendi el tuyo

Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:24:09 -0300
From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] buenos aires milongas
To: "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu

I am not sure what you mean when you say "is my statement true, or is it
a perception." I live and dance here. I am a part of the local
community just as you are in your cities. I also lived and danced in
the U.S. before moving here permanently. The milongas here are much
different than the U.S. Here the milongas are social events. If you
don't dance you can always enjoy the company of your friends. Many times
people come to the milongas here and don't dance because they are having
fun with their friends. Men and women who dance here will always tell
you that there are many more women here than men in the milongas.

With reference to my comment, I am not talking about your average dancer
in the milonga. I am talking about your best dancers. The ones that
really know how to dance. Take 100 dancers. Of that 100 65 are women
and 35 are men. So you have 35 men to dance with 65 women. Of the 65
women, maybe 15 are excellent dancers. Of the 35 men maybe 5 are
excellent. So there are 5 men for 15 women. Then there are the rest of
the dancers. Those 5 men know they are the best dancers.

Those 5 men don't have to worry about anyone accepting a dance with
them. Even if it is a night where there are an even or a close to even
amount of men to women. They know all the women want to dance with
them. They can dance with whoever they want. The women do not have
this luxury. We cannot ask men to dance. We can look at them all night
long and if they do not want to accept our invitation they won?t,
regardless of who we are or how well we dance. That man is King,
regardless of how he looks - he can have cigarette breath, a stomach,
and be bald. But if he can dance all that is forgiven inside the milonga.

If those 5 guys don't show up, then what do us 15 women say? "There is
no one to dance with." Those other 30 guys don't count. If we really
want to dance, then we dance with other men whose levels are close to
those 5 guys. Just like those 5 guys who are the Kings, the men know,
they hold the power of whether we dance or not. If we have turned down
guys repeatedly in the past, then there is no way they will dance with
us now. It is like they are saying "Suffer bitch, you ain't gettin no
dance from me now."

I do not know one milonga here in Buenos Aires where there are more men
than women. At one time when I first came to Buenos Aires, there were
more men. Now that is no longer true. There are always more women.
Especially if there is a football game on. At times at the end of a
milonga here there maybe a few more men. Lots of reasons for that. (I
am talking 4 am) There are more professional women than men who dance
tango. That means that they have to go to work in the morning. Many of
the men are retired.

You know I find it interesting that men outside of B.A. are now saying
how there are more skilled leaders than followers. I find it rather
humorous, especially since I have danced with some of them. Is this a
male tango dancer feminist backlash?

Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:37:24 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] buenos aires milongas
To: "Deby Novitz" <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>, "Nussbaum, Martin"
<mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>


On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:24:09 -0300, "Deby Novitz"
<dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com> said:

> You know I find it interesting that men outside of B.A. are now saying
> how there are more skilled leaders than followers. I find it rather
> humorous, especially since I have danced with some of them. Is this a
> male tango dancer feminist backlash?

Deby, as you suspect, it's a crock of manure. There do exist many
followers who have stopped advancing in their tango and are stuck with
some pretty bad habits, but I would say most nights the ratios here are
similarly skewed in favor of men.

The difference is that the ratios at festivals and workshops sometimes
tilt slightly more towards men, say 40 to 45 men to 60 to 55 women. And
the women dance more in the early part of the evening. So during the
last hour of the evening, as women find themselves unable to continue,
that's when women pretty much rule the roost in the US. I probably
didn't dance the last song of the night for the first 2 years I was
dancing.

By the way, it's been my experience that the milongas here in the US
have the same variability as those in BA. Without naming names, we have
our Ideals (where the skeezeballs who can't dance show up to impress
know-nothing tourists), and we have our Gricel/El Beso/Lo de Celia type
places (where the real dancers show up), and pretty much everything in
between in the US.

Christopher

From: Deby Novitz [mailto:dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:24 PM
To: Nussbaum, Martin
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: buenos aires milongas

I am not sure what you mean when you say "is my statement true, or is it a perception." I live and dance here. I am a part of the local community just as you are in your cities. I also lived and danced in the U.S. before moving here permanently. The milongas here are much different than the U.S. Here the milongas are social events. If you don't dance you can always enjoy the company of your friends. Many times people come to the milongas here and don't dance because they are having fun with their friends. Men and women who dance here will always tell you that there are many more women here than men in the milongas.

With reference to my comment, I am not talking about your average dancer in the milonga. I am talking about your best dancers. The ones that really know how to dance. Take 100 dancers. Of that 100 65 are women and 35 are men. So you have 35 men to dance with 65 women. Of the 65 women, maybe 15 are excellent dancers. Of the 35 men maybe 5 are excellent. So there are 5 men for 15 women. Then there are the rest of the dancers. Those 5 men know they are the best dancers.

Those 5 men don't have to worry about anyone accepting a dance with them. Even if it is a night where there are an even or a close to even amount of men to women. They know all the women want to dance with them. They can dance with whoever they want. The women do not have this luxury. We cannot ask men to dance. We can look at them all night long and if they do not want to accept our invitation they won?t, regardless of who we are or how well we dance. That man is King, regardless of how he looks - he can have cigarette breath, a stomach, and be bald. But if he can dance all that is forgiven inside the milonga.

If those 5 guys don't show up, then what do us 15 women say? "There is no one to dance with." Those other 30 guys don't count. If we really want to dance, then we dance with other men whose levels are close to those 5 guys. Just like those 5 guys who are the Kings, the men know, they hold the power of whether we dance or not. If we have turned down guys repeatedly in the past, then there is no way they will dance with us now. It is like they are saying "Suffer bitch, you ain't gettin no dance from me now."

I do not know one milonga here in Buenos Aires where there are more men than women. At one time when I first came to Buenos Aires, there were more men. Now that is no longer true. There are always more women.
Especially if there is a football game on. At times at the end of a milonga here there maybe a few more men. Lots of reasons for that. (I am talking 4 am) There are more professional women than men who dance tango. That means that they have to go to work in the morning. Many of the men are retired.

You know I find it interesting that men outside of B.A. are now saying how there are more skilled leaders than followers. I find it rather humorous, especially since I have danced with some of them. Is this a male tango dancer feminist backlash?

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:43:29 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Buenos Aires milongas
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>

Deby Novitz wrote:

<The milongas here are much different than the U.S. Here the milongas are
social events. If you don't dance you can always enjoy the company of your
friends.>

I disagree with you, Deby. I believe that those who really love to dance
tango go to a milonga to dance. I usually go to a milonga alone. I may
share a table with another woman, but we don't talk. She is there for the
same reason--to dance. We greet each other and refrain from any
conversation. It's quite different when you and I share a table. We
converse. I'm there to listen to the music whether I dance or not. I feel
this holds true for the majority. Even couples rarely talk because they are
there to dance, observe the dancing, and listen to the music. The noise
level from conversation in the milongas is worse than ever. There are
people who keep talking while dancing.

The exception: professional teachers who go to be seen in a milonga by
foreigners (i.e., Nino Bien on Thursdays). They are there to socialize
rather than dance. Afterall, they've been teaching all day and have no need
to dance.

<We cannot ask men to dance. We can look at them all night long and if they
do not want to accept our invitation they won't, regardless of who we are or
how well we dance.>

If I never make eye contact with a certain man, it's because I do not want
to dance with him. He knows it and doesn't take it personally. That's why
the cabeceo works so well. It requires patience on both our parts. A man
cannot invite me to dance unless I give him the opportunity. That's fine
with me. It's all about how he dances and how he holds me. I may want to
dance a particular tanda with a certain man, but he has the freedom of
choice. There will always be another day, another tanda, another milonga.