4657 Now that I?m here in BsAs
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:34:04 -0500
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I:ve realized that what I thought I knew about tango, I actually didn:t know
at all. Have only been here five days but have already gone to several
milongas (Gricel, Nino Bien, Salon Canning, Confiteria Ideal). The first two
days, I was absolutely terrified to jump in and dance because I felt so
incompetent in comparison to the locals. Then one afternoon, I forced myself
to go to Confiteria Ideal, on my own. Just being there was an incredible
experience and then 3 and a half hours later, when I finally left, due to
massive blisters on my feet from breaking in new tango shoes, I felt as
though I was coming back down to earth. I had danced non stop with one
porteno after another. One lovely porteno, who noticed that I was a bit
stiff (jetlag, oncoming cold, blisters) said to me in broken english, "close
your eyes and sleep". And so I did, I closed my eyes and in this dreamlike
state, felt as though my partner was telling me a poetic story through his
body, his dancing, his tight embrace. I:ve never experienced anything like
that in my life. My entire body felt as though I had just imbibed a glass of
wine and thus was relaxed from its liquid in my veins.
The best way to describe what it:s been like dancing with them, it:s as
though I:d been given passage to a secret world where senses collide in the
form of tango. It seems so silly now, how obsessive I was about getting the
steps right, back home in my hometown. For that:s so secondary, it:s the
musicality that is what tango is all about. Each nuance of each movement is
a response to a note in the song. The portenos, they hold you in close till
you are forehead to forehead, cheek to cheek, chest to chest, and with all
those connection points, it:s almost impossible to make a mistake, for when
you follow their leads, you do so not with thought but with instinct, like
breathing.
I have a bad cold and blisters on my feet and I don:t care. All I think
about is where and when to go to the next milonga.
And now I:m already feeliing sad because I know that this experience may
never be again replicated when I go home unless I get lucky enough to dance
with men who are either Argentine or who had learned the tango here in
Argentina.
Last night, at Salon Canning, there was a busload of tourists pouring into
the milonga. As I sat with my friend and watched them, I almost winced to
see how out of place they seemed with their awkward open embrace, or overly
fanciful steps. All I could think to myself was "they just don:t get it,
they really don't." When you look at the locals, they are calm, beatific,
confident. They do not need to step on every single note. They know how to
put as much into a pause as they do into a step. The tourists, on the other
hand, seemed almost trying too hard to impress upon others that they know
what they are doing while completely missing the point.
The dance floor was very crowded and yet all the portenos danced together in
a perfect flow. It was the tourists dancing with each other that were
disrupting the flow, or hurting others by kicking up their heels which is a
big no no! It should be blatantly obvious that such boleos don:t belong
where there isn:t room for them and obvious how discourteous it is to others
and I must say kudos to the Argentines for their gracious and benign
tolerance. The female tourists, I knew, once they danced with a porteno,
will change their style but the men, because they are the leaders, it will
take them much longer to understand.
How I wish I could bring over the entire tango community from back home to
this place so they could learn to dance the Argentine way so that I can
selfishly have the same experience in Montreal as I do here.
For months, I had heard that in BsAs, it:s not about knowing all this
advanced tango stuff, it:s about the music, about your partner, it:s about
translating how the music affects you through your body to your partner. I
danced okay in Montreal but there was always a bit of awkwardness somehow
but here, my dancing had improved so naturally fast because my mindset
shifted from doing the steps properly to closing my eyes and "sleep".
There aren:t any words to describe the bliss I:m feeling right now.
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Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:44:10 -0300
From: rtara@maine.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Caroline,
What a lovely description of the hypnotic effect of actually "dancing" tango.
I was there at Salon Canning last Sunday night, I forgot to put in my contact lenses and I had
to depend entirely
on my partner in an very different way. It was divine. There was a great feeling in the room
that night and
wonderful dancers.
Best,
RobinTara
----- Original Message -----
Date: Saturday, November 11, 2006 2:37 pm
Subject: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> I?ve realized that what I thought I knew about tango, I actually
> didn?t know
> at all. Have only been here five days but have already gone to
> several
> milongas (Gricel, Nino Bien, Salon Canning, Confiteria Ideal). The
> first two
> days, I was absolutely terrified to jump in and dance because I
> felt so
> incompetent in comparison to the locals. Then one afternoon, I
> forced myself
> to go to Confiteria Ideal, on my own. Just being there was an
> incredible
> experience and then 3 and a half hours later, when I finally left,
> due to
> massive blisters on my feet from breaking in new tango shoes, I
> felt as
> though I was coming back down to earth. I had danced non stop with
> one
> porteno after another. One lovely porteno, who noticed that I was a
> bit
> stiff (jetlag, oncoming cold, blisters) said to me in broken
> english, "close
> your eyes and sleep". And so I did, I closed my eyes and in this
> dreamlike
> state, felt as though my partner was telling me a poetic story
> through his
> body, his dancing, his tight embrace. I?ve never experienced
> anything like
> that in my life. My entire body felt as though I had just imbibed a
> glass of
> wine and thus was relaxed from its liquid in my veins.
>
> The best way to describe what it?s been like dancing with them,
> it?s as
> though I?d been given passage to a secret world where senses
> collide in the
> form of tango. It seems so silly now, how obsessive I was about
> getting the
> steps right, back home in my hometown. For that?s so secondary,
> it?s the
> musicality that is what tango is all about. Each nuance of each
> movement is
> a response to a note in the song. The portenos, they hold you in
> close till
> you are forehead to forehead, cheek to cheek, chest to chest, and
> with all
> those connection points, it?s almost impossible to make a mistake,
> for when
> you follow their leads, you do so not with thought but with
> instinct, like
> breathing.
>
> I have a bad cold and blisters on my feet and I don?t care. All I
> think
> about is where and when to go to the next milonga.
>
> And now I?m already feeliing sad because I know that this
> experience may
> never be again replicated when I go home unless I get lucky enough
> to dance
> with men who are either Argentine or who had learned the tango here
> in
> Argentina.
>
> Last night, at Salon Canning, there was a busload of tourists
> pouring into
> the milonga. As I sat with my friend and watched them, I almost
> winced to
> see how out of place they seemed with their awkward open embrace,
> or overly
> fanciful steps. All I could think to myself was "they just don?t
> get it,
> they really don't." When you look at the locals, they are calm,
> beatific,
> confident. They do not need to step on every single note. They know
> how to
> put as much into a pause as they do into a step. The tourists, on
> the other
> hand, seemed almost trying too hard to impress upon others that
> they know
> what they are doing while completely missing the point.
>
> The dance floor was very crowded and yet all the portenos danced
> together in
> a perfect flow. It was the tourists dancing with each other that
> were
> disrupting the flow, or hurting others by kicking up their heels
> which is a
> big no no! It should be blatantly obvious that such boleos don?t
> belong
> where there isn?t room for them and obvious how discourteous it is
> to others
> and I must say kudos to the Argentines for their gracious and
> benign
> tolerance. The female tourists, I knew, once they danced with a
> porteno,
> will change their style but the men, because they are the leaders,
> it will
> take them much longer to understand.
>
> How I wish I could bring over the entire tango community from back
> home to
> this place so they could learn to dance the Argentine way so that I
> can
> selfishly have the same experience in Montreal as I do here.
>
> For months, I had heard that in BsAs, it?s not about knowing all
> this
> advanced tango stuff, it?s about the music, about your partner,
> it?s about
> translating how the music affects you through your body to your
> partner. I
> danced okay in Montreal but there was always a bit of awkwardness
> somehow
> but here, my dancing had improved so naturally fast because my
> mindset
> shifted from doing the steps properly to closing my eyes and "sleep".
>
> There aren?t any words to describe the bliss I?m feeling right now.
>
> Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works
> seamlessly with
> Windows Media Player. Just Click PLAY.
> https://musicstore.sympatico.msn.ca/content/viewer.aspx?cid=SMS_Sept192006
>
>
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:15:21 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
What a wonderful story and description of a wonderful writer !
Caroline, I am going to give it to all my friends to read, thank you!
Igor.
PS, I am not against fancy steps at all. In the right time in the right
place.
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:44:46 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
> How I wish I could bring over the entire tango community from back
> home to this place so they could learn to dance the Argentine way
> so that I can selfishly have the same experience in Montreal as I
> do here.
Maybe they don't want to dance "the Argentine way".
It's a free world.
Seriously...
Your comment is probably not so much on the "Argentine Way", as on
the distinction between social tango and show or fantasy tango. I am
NOT saying there is anything wrong with stage tango, but in Argentina
people at the milongas are more aware of proper contex. They honor
social tango at the milongas and appreciate the athletism of fantasy
tango on stage.
Your experience upon arrival in Buenos Aires is typical enough. The
crowd of dancers at Canning has a generalized style or narrow range
of styles with a lot of rhythmic steps ocho-cortados, and close-close
embrace, typically called salon or club or milonguero (yes, even in
Buenos Aires they use that term). I've also noticed on my visits to
Buenos Aires how easy it is to spot the foreigners who dance very
differently from the rest of the milonga attendees, using stage
elements like ganchos and wide apart embrace.
BUT, if you pay closer attention and you will discover a large number
of foreigners who fit right in.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking Argentines are THIS and
foreigners are THAT. Even the argentines have this stereotype that
foreigners can't dance tango, to the point that they seem surprised
that I learned outside Argentina. ("Sabes lo que es piropo? Bueno,
voy decirle un piropo, mas un piropr de verdad: No bailes como
estranjero )
In fact, there are a lot of Argentines who are beginners. Tango has
grown very rapidly in Buenos Aires, and you will find a lot of 3 and
5 year dancers in the milongas these days. 10 years ago, there were
fewer milongas, with a lot more 20 & 40 year dancers by percentage.
On my more recent trips, I've noticed that navigation can be pretty
rough, and it isn't just the foreigners clogging up the floor.
I want to highlight one thing in your comments about musicality,
embrace and feel. Even a beginner Argentine usually brings passion,
intensity, a special embrace and appreciation of the music to the
dance. They know what tango looks like and in a cultural sense what
it feels like. If it is hard outside of Argentina to communicate how
to manage a social dance floor, it requires a greater effort to teach
non-Argentines the feel of the dance.
Also, if you traveled more, you would discover that you can find good
tango outside of Buenos Aires.
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org
2525 Birch St
Denver, CO 80207
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:12:13 -0500
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hello Tom,
you've brought up a couple of valid points - I had the same surprised
reaction when I told them I was Canadian for apparently, i dance well.
the main point i was making was the difference in how people approach tango
here and back home. Back home, for most people, it seems to be all aobut how
much you know, in terms of steps, whereas here, it:s more about how you feel
it.
i:ve friends abroad dancing the tango in france, germany and japan. everyone
has a different story to tell.
what i wrote, was mine. certainly there are many foreigners who dance well,
some of them exquisitely well and there are many more who don:t. and yes,
the tango style varies slightly from club to club, from how a woman wraps
her arm around a man to the styles of steps they seem to prefer but
nevertheless, across the board, that ability to make tango so much more than
just dance steps is the norm whereas I:m not so sure many people back at
home get it. and you say maybe they dont want to dance the argetine way,
well, i say maybe they don:t even know what that is.
anyhoo, potatoes, potahtoes. all i know is that i love love love the way
they dance here. that:s my personal preference. perhaps yours is something
else.
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:18:14 +0800
From: Kace <kace@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Caroline Polack wrote:
> The portenos, they hold you in close till you are forehead to
> forehead, cheek to
> cheek, chest to chest, and with all those connection points, it?s
> almost impossible
> to make a mistake, for when you follow their leads, you do so not with
> thought
> but with instinct, like breathing ....... How I wish I could bring
> over the entire
> tango community from back home to this place so they could learn to
> dance the
> Argentine way so that I can selfishly have the same experience in
> Montreal as I do here.
Hi Caroline
I love your description and I have to agree with almost everything you
said about BsAs,
only it was from a leader's point of view. It is amazing to dance with
Portenas, with their
natural musicality and relaxness, and my trips have opened my eyes to
the meanings
of "real dancing".
I know you are just sharing your euphoria and not arguing a point, so
feel free not to
agree with my opinion below.
To me, dancing tango (in the broad sense), and going to BsAs to dance,
are slightly
different animals: one is akin to learning to swim, and the other is
going to the beach
to swim.
If the distinction is not clearly made, it is tempting to draw the kind
of conclusions you
made and this could lead to a kind of chauvinism about Argentina and
Argentinians
which has surfaced frequently on tango-l.
- I would argue dancing tango is a many faceted skill, like swimming. Some
people learn to swim to compete, some to survive, some to relax, and
some to
support another pursuit like diving or sailing.
- Going to the beach on the other hand has quite little to do with
swimming. It is
more about the sun, the sand, the bikinis you wear, the friends you
have with
you and those you will meet. It quite possible not to be greatly
skilled in swimming
yet still have a fun time on the beach.
- Some people learn to swim by jumping into the water and using their
instinct, but
most people need instruction especially if they wish to reach a high
potential.
It is true most people living near the sea learn to swim naturally,
without any
structured training. They swim "instinctively". But we really cannot
throw out
every progress in the field of teaching swimming simply because they
are not
instinctive.
- Fancy steps are like all the extra swimming paraphernalia you buy and
bring
with you to a beach -- the underwater camera, the jet-ski, snorkels,
floatation
devices, etc. You really don't need them and they are often a
nuisance to other
swimmers; but they are your toys and you are entitled to use them for
your
own objectives.
My biggest revelation after a number of trips to Argentina is that, while I
greatly worship the experience of dancing in an immersive environment
of excellent dancers, I also appreciate the depth that tango has
acquired in
other arenas, like: the athletism of the nuevo dancers, the storytelling
for
stage dancers, the showmanship of the street buskers.
One sustains the culture of tango, the others the art and skill of tango.
Kace
tangosingapore.com
If you want to reach your
t is best to learn it
correctly if you want to reach your potential. This usually means
learning from a
good teacher, with the right pedagogy, over a reasonable amount of time.
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:17:04 -0700
From: Nina Pesochinsky <nina@earthnet.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
Hello, Tom, Caroline and everyone,
I think that there may need to be a clarification. It is not that
foreigners focus on steps and dance them at the milongas of BsAs, but
that it is foreign men that tend to do so. I have not heard from
men, Argentine or not, that foreign women insist on dancing stage
tango at the milongas against their partners social dance
intentions. Has anyone?
Warm regards,
Nina
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:03:16 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@mit.edu>
Well, those wacky foreign guys are not dancing by themselves.
Less facetiously...
You have set up a straw argument, trying to get us to imagine a
strange follower who would just do big boleos or ganchos on her own
without being led. That's pretty uncommon.
The steps and navigation are chosen by the man. As Argentines
frequently say (apologies for the false cognate), "In tango the man
proposes, the woman disposes." But, there are plenty of ways for a
woman to dispose poorly. For example, forcing the wrong technique
onto the style offered by the leader.
A woman going to Buenos Aires without the ability to adjust her
technique to the style or styles prevalent in the milongas would be
labeled as unable to dance. A strong leader could force her to adapt,
but she won't get many dances from the better dancers.
I have certainly heard the same comment ("Wait a minute, Where did
you learn? You don't dance like a foreigner"), applied to women who
visit argentina. It makes you wonder what their experience has been
with foreign women, for them to make such a comment.
In other words, the same issues about learning how to dance ("the way
they do in milongas in Argentina") applies equally to women. Caroline
admits that with her first sentence: "I've realized that what I
thought I knew about tango, I actually didn't know at all."
On Nov 11, 2006, at 1:17 PM, Nina Pesochinsky wrote:
> Hello, Tom, Caroline and everyone,
>
> I think that there may need to be a clarification. It is not that
> foreigners focus on steps and dance them at the milongas of BsAs, but
> that it is foreign men that tend to do so. I have not heard from
> men, Argentine or not, that foreign women insist on dancing stage
> tango at the milongas against their partners social dance
> intentions. Has anyone?
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Nina
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:45:26 +0100
From: " Christian L?then " <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
Cc: runcarolinerun@hotmail.com
Thanks, Tom,
I knew I could rely on you and you - correct - comment(s)!
Sorry, Caroline,
it's not the european men, at least not at only!
I definitely remember enough situations in Buenos Aires when I never
offered big steps, no boleos, no gachos to ('foreign') women ... but they
still did them. As Tom pointed out: I would, as the argentines do, just
let them go: give them one tanda - but no more never!
Caroline,
you're freightend of not getting these sort of dances/feelings anymore
back 'at home' (whereever you're from) ... and - unfortunately - you're
feeling the urge to share this and send a message to the world: only
the argentines can dance, only the argentines can produce these
feelings ... et cetera ... et cetera ... et cetera ... [the old klischee!]
Actualy: you definitely allready arrived with this sentiments ... and now
they were confirmed. [in psychology this is called 'self fullfilling
prophicy']
This is not an personal acuse ... in contrast ... but _please_ sit back for
a moment and think about what you espected from a (male) dancer /
leader back home before you came out to Bs.As.?!?!?! Didn't you
espect all that fancy stuff??? And now, as the argentine is not doing it
... now it great to stay simple! (?!)
In other words: I you (and the other women) would be that open
towards a non argentine back at home (also read: willing to follow
_to_the_same_extend_) as you are to the argentine ...
... you'd probably experience the same back home.
Or at least you could!
Do not get me wrong: I love Bs.As.! I love being there! (it's a very
strange feeling to not have been out to Bs.As. this year after three
years in a row) I love dancing there. But still - and I do share this with
many other dancers who have been to Bs.As. multiple times / regulary:
you can get fantastic dancing in Bs.As, that's true. But only if you're
able to catch the better and the best dancers [which is either because
you're a good dancer or you're very attractive or you dress up (down?)
half naked (which after you're observations I would not consider
concerning your person but have observed this with female tourists
quite often, not to say regulary] you will have the impressions you
described ... as there are a lot of (very) bad dancers in Bs.As.! A lot of
dancers which never would be able to get their shares in ie. european
milongas ... and if ever only because of the - continuing - female
misconception of that only an argentine can dance well!
Therefore - please - : the next time you're going to dance back home
welcome and embrace the men with the same openhearted feelings
you were giving the argentines when you arrived in Bs.As. (and now).
Be ready to give your best (as you do now in Bs.As.): that is _just_
_follow_!!!
Yes, there are two important words: "just" and "follow". "follow" is the
basis for the "just"! Be ready for this experience. Be ready to appriciate
a beginner/intermediate who's _just_ leadling simple things ... by your
devotion you will make the leader happy (and a better dancer as you
know by now!) and also make yourself feeling better!
Caroline: please do _not_ take this message personally ... it is not
meant to be! It's a hint to all females/followers who are (still) in the
"argentines by definition dance better" state!
And one day you will (perhaps) discover that there are _a_lot_ of
_non_-argentines around who dance a lot better than most of the
argentines (and most of the non-argentines as well).
And, one thing to realize and not to forget: check out about the lives of
those who dance that good down in Argentina! Are those folks 'down to
earth' or are they rather marginal figures??? That to say: check the
same things / values on your local dancers at home! What would you
think about an un/half-employed person killing _every_ night at
milongas into the (late) morning hours???
To some it up: from your posting I presume that you'd be very nice to
dance with ... and even more after you'd have given up that "argentines
are better by definition" sentiments!
Continue to enjoy Bs.As. and give the town a little hug from me!
Christian
On 11 Nov 2006 at 14:03, Tom Stermitz wrote:
> Well, those wacky foreign guys are not dancing by themselves.
>
>
> Less facetiously...
>
> You have set up a straw argument, trying to get us to imagine a
> strange follower who would just do big boleos or ganchos on her own
> without being led. That's pretty uncommon.
>
> The steps and navigation are chosen by the man. As Argentines
> frequently say (apologies for the false cognate), "In tango the man
> proposes, the woman disposes." But, there are plenty of ways for a
> woman to dispose poorly. For example, forcing the wrong technique
> onto the style offered by the leader.
>
> A woman going to Buenos Aires without the ability to adjust her
> technique to the style or styles prevalent in the milongas would be
> labeled as unable to dance. A strong leader could force her to adapt,
> but she won't get many dances from the better dancers.
>
> I have certainly heard the same comment ("Wait a minute, Where did
> you learn? You don't dance like a foreigner"), applied to women who
> visit argentina. It makes you wonder what their experience has been
> with foreign women, for them to make such a comment.
>
>
> In other words, the same issues about learning how to dance ("the way
> they do in milongas in Argentina") applies equally to women. Caroline
> admits that with her first sentence: "I've realized that what I
> thought I knew about tango, I actually didn't know at all."
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2006, at 1:17 PM, Nina Pesochinsky wrote:
>
> > Hello, Tom, Caroline and everyone,
> >
> > I think that there may need to be a clarification. It is not that
> > foreigners focus on steps and dance them at the milongas of BsAs, but
> > that it is foreign men that tend to do so. I have not heard from
> > men, Argentine or not, that foreign women insist on dancing stage
> > tango at the milongas against their partners social dance
> > intentions. Has anyone?
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Nina
>
>
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:45:59 -0500
From: "Jacob Eggers" <eggers@brandeis.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<dfa4cf020611111645y52a64298u287db5a5b7dcc8a0@mail.gmail.com>
Mmmm. Caroline, your description of argentina makes me want to go so badly.
It's not that there aren't followers in north america that dance with
feeling, but there is a culture of steps in north america that even people
that dance with feeling can get caught up with. It's hard to dance a simple
dance when your follower is always thinking of the next gancho. So often,
I've seen followers who as beginners gain a good feel, but then lose it
later in their tango lives. They've become better followers in that they'll
go more where they're put and they can follow more steps, but the feeling of
the embrace and a simple step has been lost somewhere in dance after dance
with step collectors. It must be magnitudes more difficult for followers to
find that feeling in a sea of leaders who are constantly trying to impress.
There are nights when I dance with all of the right followers at all of the
right times (e.g. after they've been dancing with certain leaders that'll
just put them into a trance) and I can virtually walk all night long, but
that's only on the occasional night. Usually it's only with with a handful
of followers that I'm able to have that feeling consistently. (I can't say
that it's the argentine style that I'm dancing in at these times, but it's
certainly not the typical american style either.) I hope that as I dance for
a few more years I improve in being able to extend that feeling to a wider
range of followers (rather than improve in the difficulty and number of
steps that I'm able to execute).
I find that the last night of a festival usually has that feeling. It's
likely caused by dancing for several days in a row. Therefore everyone is at
the top of their technique (so simple stuff feels that much better), are the
most immersed in the music, and are exhausted (so difficult steps take a
little too much energy)...sort the sleep walking phenomenon. Sometimes I'm
so caught up in it that when we break the embrace, I'll lose my balance.
It's as if I've become so entwined with a follower that the embrace is more
natural than standing on my own.
Caroline, at some point on your trip try to wake your mind while letting
your body sleep so that you can come to a meditative awareness of the
dance. Hopefully, then you'll be able to better understand what makes an
Argentine feeling of dance so wonderful. That way when you come back to
North America, you can try to pass that Argentine feeling around. I owe my
understanding to one particular teacher who would dance with me for long
periods at practicas and work on getting the feeling of simple walking and
weight changes to feel good.
Another thing that really helped me to keep my dancing in check was to ask
my friends who their favorite leaders were and why. The reasons were wide. A
single follower would say, I like him because he dances passionately, him
because he's tremendous fun, he feels wonderfully grounded, he's musical,
he's smooth, he makes me think, him because I can zone out when dancing with
him... There wasn't really a pattern to the description of what made someone
good. So, I would spend my early time at milongas not looking for the next
dance, but watching these specific role models to try to absorb what made
them good. As my eye grew accustomed to tango, I was able to see intent and
emotion in a dance. I noticed that none of the good dancers were dancing
with an intent to impress. (Even the ones that were impressing). The good
leaders expressed in their dance the feeling that I could see in their
faces. The lesson I took out of that was to always dance what I felt. If I
felt a colgada, then by all means, lead a colgada. But, from watching the
favorites I knew that I could make a follower happy with simple walking to
the music as easily as I could with a colgada. So, if I don't feel it then
what's the point of it.
A third piece that helped my dancing was to listen to tango nonstop. And not
just the danceable golden age tango, but complicated tangos by people like
Piazzolla too. Trying to interpret these pieces made interpreting the golden
age tangos easy in comparison. (This is one area that Argentines have a
clear advantage over any North American. Tango music is a part of life for
Argentines.
Also, don't lose out hope for the north american scene. Our community is
still young and is ruled by the young. I believe that it'll mature
gracefully. Eventually, the young crazy dancers (like myself) will become
geriatrics and reduce their dance to the two or three steps that feel
amazing. They'll provide excellent role models for a future generation of
dancers. Though, I hope that we always have a new influx of the young,
energetic, experimental dancers that bring a great, fun energy to tango in
the US. They provide the fuel for the further growth of the community.
j
In tango, there are two types: those who like to fly and those who like to
hug.
On 11/11/06, Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Tom,
>
> you've brought up a couple of valid points - I had the same surprised
> reaction when I told them I was Canadian for apparently, i dance well.
>
> the main point i was making was the difference in how people approach
> tango
> here and back home. Back home, for most people, it seems to be all aobut
> how
> much you know, in terms of steps, whereas here, it?s more about how you
> feel
> it.
>
> i?ve friends abroad dancing the tango in france, germany and japan.
> everyone
> has a different story to tell.
>
> what i wrote, was mine. certainly there are many foreigners who dance
> well,
> some of them exquisitely well and there are many more who don?t. and yes,
> the tango style varies slightly from club to club, from how a woman wraps
> her arm around a man to the styles of steps they seem to prefer but
> nevertheless, across the board, that ability to make tango so much more
> than
> just dance steps is the norm whereas I?m not so sure many people back at
> home get it. and you say maybe they dont want to dance the argetine way,
> well, i say maybe they don?t even know what that is.
>
> anyhoo, potatoes, potahtoes. all i know is that i love love love the way
> they dance here. that?s my personal preference. perhaps yours is something
> else.
>
> Ready for the world's first international mobile film festival celebrating
> the creative potential of today's youth? Check out Mobile Jam Fest for
> your
> a chance to WIN $10,000! www.mobilejamfest.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 22:16:15 -0300
From: rtara@maine.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: Jacob Eggers <eggers@brandeis.edu>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Jacob,
Delightful. Well written. On target.
I think those who "get" it can really be generous about trying to give our partners this
heavenly feeling.
Those who have experienced it have a better idea of how to pass it on.
I've noticed that most Argentine men feel very comfortable with women. Or pretend to be.
They are not afraid
of the woman. They look at her, they admire her, they compliment her. They practice the art
of seduction all the
time. Sometimes it's serious, most of the time it's only in fun, but they are always offering
themselves. It's the
same way with their dancing.
There was a time when I would have found this insincere and distasteful. But I've finally
reached the age when I
can't be bothered to worry about much. As far as I'm concerned dancing should be a
pleasure - to move with
someone else through space - in music. If it includes a compliment, an admiring glance or an
inside joke, all
the better.
Uh huh.
Best,
Robin Tara
----- Original Message -----
Date: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Now that I?m here in BsAs
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Mmmm. Caroline, your description of argentina makes me want to go
> so badly.
> It's not that there aren't followers in north america that dance with
> feeling, but there is a culture of steps in north america that even
> peoplethat dance with feeling can get caught up with. It's hard to
> dance a simple
> dance when your follower is always thinking of the next gancho. So
> often,I've seen followers who as beginners gain a good feel, but
> then lose it
> later in their tango lives. They've become better followers in that
> they'llgo more where they're put and they can follow more steps,
> but the feeling of
> the embrace and a simple step has been lost somewhere in dance
> after dance
> with step collectors. It must be magnitudes more difficult for
> followers to
> find that feeling in a sea of leaders who are constantly trying to
> impress.
> There are nights when I dance with all of the right followers at
> all of the
> right times (e.g. after they've been dancing with certain leaders
> that'lljust put them into a trance) and I can virtually walk all
> night long, but
> that's only on the occasional night. Usually it's only with with a
> handfulof followers that I'm able to have that feeling
> consistently. (I can't say
> that it's the argentine style that I'm dancing in at these times,
> but it's
> certainly not the typical american style either.) I hope that as I
> dance for
> a few more years I improve in being able to extend that feeling to
> a wider
> range of followers (rather than improve in the difficulty and
> number of
> steps that I'm able to execute).
>
> I find that the last night of a festival usually has that feeling.
> It'slikely caused by dancing for several days in a row. Therefore
> everyone is at
> the top of their technique (so simple stuff feels that much
> better), are the
> most immersed in the music, and are exhausted (so difficult steps
> take a
> little too much energy)...sort the sleep walking phenomenon.
> Sometimes I'm
> so caught up in it that when we break the embrace, I'll lose my
> balance.It's as if I've become so entwined with a follower that the
> embrace is more
> natural than standing on my own.
>
> Caroline, at some point on your trip try to wake your mind while
> lettingyour body sleep so that you can come to a meditative
> awareness of the
> dance. Hopefully, then you'll be able to better understand what
> makes an
> Argentine feeling of dance so wonderful. That way when you come
> back to
> North America, you can try to pass that Argentine feeling around. I
> owe my
> understanding to one particular teacher who would dance with me for
> longperiods at practicas and work on getting the feeling of simple
> walking and
> weight changes to feel good.
>
> Another thing that really helped me to keep my dancing in check was
> to ask
> my friends who their favorite leaders were and why. The reasons
> were wide. A
> single follower would say, I like him because he dances
> passionately, him
> because he's tremendous fun, he feels wonderfully grounded, he's
> musical,he's smooth, he makes me think, him because I can zone out
> when dancing with
> him... There wasn't really a pattern to the description of what
> made someone
> good. So, I would spend my early time at milongas not looking for
> the next
> dance, but watching these specific role models to try to absorb
> what made
> them good. As my eye grew accustomed to tango, I was able to see
> intent and
> emotion in a dance. I noticed that none of the good dancers were
> dancingwith an intent to impress. (Even the ones that were
> impressing). The good
> leaders expressed in their dance the feeling that I could see in their
> faces. The lesson I took out of that was to always dance what I
> felt. If I
> felt a colgada, then by all means, lead a colgada. But, from
> watching the
> favorites I knew that I could make a follower happy with simple
> walking to
> the music as easily as I could with a colgada. So, if I don't feel
> it then
> what's the point of it.
>
> A third piece that helped my dancing was to listen to tango
> nonstop. And not
> just the danceable golden age tango, but complicated tangos by
> people like
> Piazzolla too. Trying to interpret these pieces made interpreting
> the golden
> age tangos easy in comparison. (This is one area that Argentines
> have a
> clear advantage over any North American. Tango music is a part of
> life for
> Argentines.
>
> Also, don't lose out hope for the north american scene. Our
> community is
> still young and is ruled by the young. I believe that it'll mature
> gracefully. Eventually, the young crazy dancers (like myself) will
> becomegeriatrics and reduce their dance to the two or three steps
> that feel
> amazing. They'll provide excellent role models for a future
> generation of
> dancers. Though, I hope that we always have a new influx of the young,
> energetic, experimental dancers that bring a great, fun energy to
> tango in
> the US. They provide the fuel for the further growth of the community.
>
> j
>
> In tango, there are two types: those who like to fly and those who
> like to
> hug.
>
>
>
> On 11/11/06, Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Tom,
> >
> > you've brought up a couple of valid points - I had the same
> surprised> reaction when I told them I was Canadian for apparently,
> i dance well.
> >
> > the main point i was making was the difference in how people
> approach> tango
> > here and back home. Back home, for most people, it seems to be
> all aobut
> > how
> > much you know, in terms of steps, whereas here, it?s more about
> how you
> > feel
> > it.
> >
> > i?ve friends abroad dancing the tango in france, germany and japan.
> > everyone
> > has a different story to tell.
> >
> > what i wrote, was mine. certainly there are many foreigners who
> dance> well,
> > some of them exquisitely well and there are many more who don?t.
> and yes,
> > the tango style varies slightly from club to club, from how a
> woman wraps
> > her arm around a man to the styles of steps they seem to prefer but
> > nevertheless, across the board, that ability to make tango so
> much more
> > than
> > just dance steps is the norm whereas I?m not so sure many people
> back at
> > home get it. and you say maybe they dont want to dance the
> argetine way,
> > well, i say maybe they don?t even know what that is.
> >
> > anyhoo, potatoes, potahtoes. all i know is that i love love love
> the way
> > they dance here. that?s my personal preference. perhaps yours is
> something> else.
> >
> > Ready for the world's first international mobile film festival
> celebrating> the creative potential of today's youth? Check out
> Mobile Jam Fest for
> > your
> > a chance to WIN $10,000! www.mobilejamfest.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
