1940 Off the beat?
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:57:38 EST
From: Crrtango@AOL.COM
Subject: Off the beat?
Brian Dunn wrote in response to Tom's comment that the weight is changed on
the beat:
"Not necessarily.."
I disagree. Tom is correct. A change of weight on the beat is the whole idea.
That is the reason walking exercises are so important at first - to teach
that. You are not on the beat until you have changed from the other foot. Whether
the leg is extended or not is not as important but the full transfer of
weight should be at that point. It doesn't mean that a person has to be "over" the
foot necessarily as in traspie milonga where one does indeed transfer the
weight but remains with the axis over the previous foot, but there is definitely
a removal of the support from one foot to the other. Are you sure Brian that
you don't mean that?
I also disagree about the follower being behind. If a woman is behind the
beat there are lot's of problems ahead. But that's also the leader's job to lead
her slightly ahead so she will land at the proper moment. Of course the woman
has a responsibility to learn to move as well. I think there may be some
confusion about the difference between extensions and feet touching the floor and
the actual transfer to the other foot. As when you are rocking, you are between
the two feet but still transferring from one to the other, or at least you
should be.
Cheers,
Charles
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:12:07 -0700
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Off the beat?
Charles wrote:
>>>
Brian Dunn wrote in response to Tom's comment that the weight is changed on
the beat:
"Not necessarily.."
I disagree. Tom is correct.
<<<
Charles, without a trace of irony, I refer you to an earlier posting of mine
discussing teaching, styles, etc. entitled "All Tango Teachers are
Correct" - and doubly so if you consider yourself a tango teacher.
Tom says:
' "Being ON the beat" means "completing the change of weight at the beat".'
I fully grant you that that's what Tom means by "on the beat", and that you
agree with him. That is "not necessarily" what I (and others) mean by the
phrase - but still, you, Tom and I all get to be "correct", unless you &/or
Tom deny me the privilege I grant you.
To clarify MY meaning, let me try another tack:
Imagine a group of musicians playing together. If someone is early or late
sounding a note for which the score says all should be sounding in unison,
that person could be said to be not "on the beat." Whether or not that
missed note is also a downbeat that a dancer would recognize as a "step,"
requiring the completion of a weight change, etc. is less important to the
conductor and the other musicians than whether that person sounded their
note "early" or "late", i.e., off the beat. It was this quality I referred
to when I said, "If you want to see whether a leader is on the beat, watch
his follower's feet, not his."
Another tack:
Consider the silence intervals in "Pavadita" - personally I love to lead
things like pivoting colgadas during these "timed silences", set up so that
the greatest extent of the colgada's lean, or the greatest rotational
velocity of the pivot, happens "on the beat" midway between the start and
stop of the silence. During this part of a pivoting colgada, and before the
step out, there's no step, no weight shift to a new foot - but by my
definition I am leading her "on the beat" - and the feedback I get suggests
that it is musically appreciated and understood.
Perhaps for this quality/attribute you would prefer terms such as "on the
music", "on the rhythm", "with the music", "as written", etc. I hope I've
made my meaning clearer to you. As I said before: "In teaching, you never
know who's going to get the concept from what image, so it's good to have a
lot of approaches and images to pick from, and use several in each class."
You also said:
>>>
I also disagree about the follower being behind. If a woman is behind the
beat there are lot's of problems ahead.
<<<
You lost me - I don't know what you are referring to...
Have fun with YOUR favorite images, ;)
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 06:09:32 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Off the beat?
Brian,
Your description of a dance expression (eg. maximum extension of a
colgada lean) synchronized to an implied "beat" midway in a "timed silence"
is Perfect. It's a subtle but key component of what (I suspect) Ditkof's
women interviewees call "musicality."
J in Portland
P.S And apologies to you Michael if I've mispelled your name. Couldn't find
a post to confirm.
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:44:32 -0400
From: rcgimmi@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] Off the Beat
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I have a student who is consistently off the beat with his steps and figures. ?What is the best way to diplomatically correct this problem? ?Any of you instructors out there -- how do you fix this?
Thanks -
Brujo
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:04:07 -0400
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Off the Beat
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>, <rcgimmi@aol.com>
Brujo:
Put on Pugliese's "La Yumba" and watch him walk alone to the music. If he is
still off beat, that means he is NOT focusing on the music, but on steps.
Stand next to him, put your arm over his shoulder, and walk him to the music
showing him where the beat is. If he can find the beat during the exercise
but NOT when he dances, his focus is lost. He is concentrating on figures
and not the music. You need to tell him if he can't figure it out from the
exercise.
Michael
I danced Argentine Tango - - with the Argentines
----- Original Message -----
From: <rcgimmi@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:44 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] Off the Beat
I have a student who is consistently off the beat with his steps and
figures. What is the best way to diplomatically correct this problem? Any of
you instructors out there -- how do you fix this?
>
>
>
> Thanks ->
> Brujo
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:07:30 EDT
From: Crrtango@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Off the Beat
To: Rcgimmi@aol.com, TANGO-L@mit.edu
Do you practice walking very much or do you just teach steps?
My students always warm up by walking to the music, alone, not with each
other, no matter how advanced they are. It is difficult to hear music for
some people but that is one of the best ways to help instill that into their
bodies. It usually works over time, but for beginners especially, steps
complicate the basic rhythmic cadence needed for dancing well. If they can't
walk to the beat, chances are they can't dance to it either.
Charles
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