2168  Origins of the cross step

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:53:02 -0800
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Origins of the cross step

From the book of the El Compadrito y el Tango by Andres M. Carretero the
Tango coreography of harmonized steps for man and woman sucha as: cross
steps, back step, simple and complicated turns, legs crossing, side step,
sentadita (originally an insinuation) and other steps improvised on the spur
of the moment takes place in 1890. This was as a result of the changes in
the music -- a representation of a more orderly lifestyle, the adaptation of
european salon dances, the exageration of the steps. However, the
improvisation of the dance is kept from the original coreography of 1875
meaning that the coreography could only be performed once and never to be
repeated.

Un abrazo,

Bruno

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:53:15 EST
From: LGMoseley@AOL.COM
Subject: The cross

> As to the cross, most classical salon tango dancers will allow the
> woman to automatically cross in front after he walks two steps to
> her right. When I do not want her to lock in front, I prevent her

Why only two steps? I have seen one Argentinian dancer (Miguel Angel Zotto)
walk 17 steps outside to the lady's right before leading a Cross, and more
generally there appears to be no reason to fix on two. The whole point of
learning to lead the Cross is that you can put it in wherever it seems
appropriate. Two tendencies seem to me to typify what can go wrong:-

1. For ladies to cross at every manufactured opportunity (not every offered
opportunity)
2. For men always to lead a cross after N steps (where N is a fixed number)

These two tendencies destroy the whole point of Tango. One of the main
features of Tango, in my view, is that it is a conversation between two bodies,
without the use of words. Can you imagine an oral "conversation" in which all
that took place was the uttering by both parties of stereotyped formulae? I
don't think that most of us would call that "communication" or "conversation".
Always crossing on step 4 (or any other fixed number) would be such a
sterotyped formula.

In the Shannon view, what is communicated in information is surprise. One of
the delights of Tango is that there is always the possibility of surprise,
not only to the lady, but to the man as well.

Abrazos

Laurie

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:02:14 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: The cross

Dear Laurie:

Exactly... Surprise is wonderful. I agree with you
completely on this. The tango orchestras are
themselves are very playful with "surprise" in the
music. Sometimes one thinks that the music is about
to end and it starts up again...with yet another
phrase, or yhe music goes off into some brand new
wonderful direction with a different beat. ie: Some
orchestras like Color Tango, mix a tango with a fast
milonga in the same piece, just to keep things
interesting. Many people do not "get it" and continue
dancing to the originial rythmn, which to me is very
strange. They tell me that the I am changing in the
middle of the dance, which of course is true. Thank
you.

Derik

--- LGMoseley@AOL.COM wrote:

> > As to the cross, most classical salon tango
> dancers will allow the
> > woman to automatically cross in front after he
> walks two steps to
> > her right. When I do not want her to lock in
> front, I prevent her
>
> Why only two steps? I have seen one Argentinian
> dancer (Miguel Angel Zotto)
> walk 17 steps outside to the lady's right before
> leading a Cross, and more
> generally there appears to be no reason to fix on
> two. The whole point of
> learning to lead the Cross is that you can put it in
> wherever it seems
> appropriate. Two tendencies seem to me to typify
> what can go wrong:-
>
> 1. For ladies to cross at every manufactured
> opportunity (not every offered
> opportunity)
> 2. For men always to lead a cross after N steps
> (where N is a fixed number)
>
> These two tendencies destroy the whole point of
> Tango. One of the main
> features of Tango, in my view, is that it is a
> conversation between two bodies,
> without the use of words. Can you imagine an oral
> "conversation" in which all
> that took place was the uttering by both parties of
> stereotyped formulae? I
> don't think that most of us would call that
> "communication" or "conversation".
> Always crossing on step 4 (or any other fixed
> number) would be such a
> sterotyped formula.
>
> In the Shannon view, what is communicated in
> information is surprise. One of
> the delights of Tango is that there is always the
> possibility of surprise,
> not only to the lady, but to the man as well.
>
> Abrazos
>
> Laurie
>
>
>
> should be sent to
> send the
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
>

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:36:45 +1100
From: Chanop Silpa-Anan <chanop@MAIL.RSISE.ANU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: The cross

Hi Derek,

May I ask: which song, album and at what time does this happen for a
reference?


Chanop

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 08:02:14AM -0800, Derik Rawson wrote

> music goes off into some brand new
> wonderful direction with a different beat. ie: Some
> orchestras like Color Tango, mix a tango with a fast
> milonga in the same piece, just to keep things
> interesting. Many people do not "get it" and continue
> dancing to the originial rythmn, which to me is very
> strange.

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 05:28:52 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: The cross

Dear Chanop, Color Tango En Vivo middle toward end.
Cannot remember exact track. Thanks. Derik
--- TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
<chanop@MAIL.RSISE.ANU.EDU.AU> wrote:

> Hi Derek,
>
> May I ask: which song, album and at what time does

this happen for a

> reference?
>
>
> Chanop
>
> On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 08:02:14AM -0800, Derik

Rawson wrote

>
> > music goes off into some brand new
> > wonderful direction with a different beat. ie:

Some

> > orchestras like Color Tango, mix a tango with a

fast

> > milonga in the same piece, just to keep things
> > interesting. Many people do not "get it" and

continue

> > dancing to the originial rythmn, which to me is

very

> > strange.
>
>

should be sent to
send the
LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.

>
>

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:14:29 -0400
From: Ira Goldstein <eyegee@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] the cross

I asked Pablo Veron some years ago about the cross, at another time
when the list was heavily concerned about it.

He said that he thought a more rewarding and creative challenge was
to explore *not* crossing.

--Ira
Ithaca, NY