3798 paying DJs (was DJ at Central Park)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:22:03 -0600
From: Paul Akmajian & Karen Reck <paulnkaren@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: paying DJs (was DJ at Central Park)
This post is from Karen:
----------
anonymous (via Seth) wrote <<<<Has anybody made any suggestions to this DJ
or his employer to make him play more milonga/vals, or use a more
conventional tanda format, or deal with whatever gripes people have?>>>>
----------
Alexis Cousein wrote <<<<You mean they actually get paid?>>>>
-----------
This brings up something I've been meaning to ask some of the DJs &
organizers, but may as well put out to the whole group: I assume that DJs in
Buenos Aires are paid (it's both their vocation & avocation), but elsewhere
(at local milongas, festivals, workshop weekends) how often are tango DJs
are paid and how much?
I ask because it's an issue our local community needs to address, and
because I want to begin paying visiting DJs, at least at events where I'm an
organizer. I believe this has only happened once here when the DJ
specifically requested it. I'd like to hear how other communities handle
this, realizing it's a complex issue.
For one thing, it seems there's nothing more contentious in a tango
community than the subject of music. In smaller communities (like
Albuquerque and Santa Fe where we each have one regular weekly milonga, one
weekly practica & between us host an additional milonga or two each weekend)
when dancers speak up critically about a DJ's music it generally leads to
hurt feelings &/or community rifts. DJs are often tango-friends; if you
don't care for their music format/selections it's more diplomatic to vote
with your feet, but as has been mentioned, not as effective.
Then, there's the issue of how DJs are selected: the DJ is the organizer (as
when I organize an event w/ my business partner & she DJs); the DJ is
invited by the organizer (as in the case of events presented by my small
business partnership); or the DJs are selected by a committee (as is the
case with our local tango club). In the case of clubs/committees there would
have to be more specific (than generally exists) criteria regarding who, how
& in what cases DJs are paid.
Also, here the DJ not only works as a volunteer, but is often the person
responsible for equipment set-up and break-down -- and often the first in
and last out -- plus they have the personal expense of buying/collecting
their music. Local tango club DJs are currently recompensed by not paying
admission to weekly club events (applies to all events whether they are
DJing then or not). For events I organize w/ my business partner (our 3X
yearly workshop weekends + a few others), we pay for the DJ's dinner/drinks
at the event. Visiting instructors, including Robert Hauk, Robin Thomas and
Alex Krebs have DJed without additional fees during workshop weekends here.
Anyway, I think it's past time we do more -- please share how you do this in
your communities.
Thanks,
Karen Reck
Albuquerque, NM
P.S. I need to add that at most of favorite café-based milongas in
Albuquerque we don't have a cover charge (& in some cases it's part of the
agreement not to do so as we aren't charged for use of these
open-to-the-public venues where dancers and the public mingle).
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:28:04 -0500
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
Subject: Re: paying DJs (was DJ at Central Park)
Paul Akmajian & Karen Reck wrote:
>This post is from Karen:
>----------
>anonymous (via Seth) wrote <<<<Has anybody made any suggestions to this DJ
>or his employer to make him play more milonga/vals, or use a more
>conventional tanda format, or deal with whatever gripes people have?>>>>
>----------
>Alexis Cousein wrote <<<<You mean they actually get paid?>>>>
>-----------
>
>This brings up something I've been meaning to ask some of the DJs &
>organizers, but may as well put out to the whole group: I assume that DJs in
>Buenos Aires are paid (it's both their vocation & avocation), but elsewhere
>(at local milongas, festivals, workshop weekends) how often are tango DJs
>are paid and how much?
>
>I ask because it's an issue our local community needs to address, and
>because I want to begin paying visiting DJs, at least at events where I'm an
>organizer. I believe this has only happened once here when the DJ
>specifically requested it. I'd like to hear how other communities handle
>this, realizing it's a complex issue.
If it's your event, pay them. It's between you and the DJ.
>For one thing, it seems there's nothing more contentious in a tango
>community than the subject of music.
The most contentious issue in the communities I participate in (in
Iowa) is money.
>In smaller communities (like
>Albuquerque and Santa Fe where we each have one regular weekly milonga, one
>weekly practica & between us host an additional milonga or two each weekend)
>when dancers speak up critically about a DJ's music it generally leads to
>hurt feelings &/or community rifts. DJs are often tango-friends; if you
>don't care for their music format/selections it's more diplomatic to vote
>with your feet, but as has been mentioned, not as effective.
Can we engage in a process of education? There are some tremendous
resources for the Tango DJ available:
-- Stephen Brown's TejasTango.com site
-- Tine's Tango DJ list
Most people want to do a good job. The problem is when they think they
can do a good job, but are incompetent know-nothings; thus they lack the
ability to step back from their performance and see that it can improve
drastically.
Incompetence of this sort extends up and down the levels of organization
from dancers to teachers, tango club committees, etc. In the case of
some local organizers I know in Iowa, they think good DJ'ing is a luxury
instead of a necessity: I actually heard the words "We may not be ready
for DJ'ing", come out of one womans's mouth. I know a guy who played
an extended "New Age" wail by Enya, lacking any sort of beat ... and
had the atrocious gall to call it "alternative" tango.
>Then, there's the issue of how DJs are selected: the DJ is the organizer (as
>when I organize an event w/ my business partner & she DJs); the DJ is
>invited by the organizer (as in the case of events presented by my small
>business partnership); or the DJs are selected by a committee (as is the
>case with our local tango club). In the case of clubs/committees there would
>have to be more specific (than generally exists) criteria regarding who, how
>& in what cases DJs are paid.
How do you handle things like workshops? Can you be a club member and
promote your own workshops? I've agreed to be a good little boy and
not bring in any teachers on my own, but I have to say that decision
isn't sitting well with me.
>Also, here the DJ not only works as a volunteer, but is often the person
>responsible for equipment set-up and break-down -- and often the first in
>and last out -- plus they have the personal expense of buying/collecting
>their music. Local tango club DJs are currently recompensed by not paying
>admission to weekly club events (applies to all events whether they are
>DJing then or not). For events I organize w/ my business partner (our 3X
>yearly workshop weekends + a few others), we pay for the DJ's dinner/drinks
>at the event. Visiting instructors, including Robert Hauk, Robin Thomas and
>Alex Krebs have DJed without additional fees during workshop weekends here.
>Anyway, I think it's past time we do more -- please share how you do this in
>your communities.
Beware of the crowd that wants something for nothing: they'll use words
like "Capitalism" and "Socialism" in connection with tango activities.
Makes me sick to the stomach.
--
Christopher L. Everett
Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com
MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:52:37 -0700
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: paying DJs (was DJ at Central Park)
Dear organizers,
If possible, pay the DJ. The DJ has expenses building a CD collection (often thousands of dollars over years), buying equipment and driving to the milonga (40c/mile nowadays). Plus the time commitment, arriving first, leaving last, sticking around and staying on top of things. Flaking is not an option. It's a responsibility and a commitment. You tip waitstaff, and you pay babysitters and employees, don't you?
While many DJs will be happy to contribute their expertise and resources Gratis to non-profit events, if the organizers derive an income from the event, I think the DJ should get something for his trouble too. Particularly if the organizers concede that having this DJ is a big improvement over inserting a compilation and pressing "random". Getting a DJ is as legitimate an expense as renting a venue and often contributes more to the success of the event than the brownies on the snack table.
If you can't commit to a flat fee, please consider a small sum per dancer who attended, depending on the size of the event and the amount of admission charged. In any case getting a good DJ is likely to be a smaller investment with a higher return than you probably think.
If you find it awkward to hand a small amount of money to somebody who you consider your friend instead of your employee, just say Hey, we had a lot of dancers this month, and thanks a lot for your wonderful DJing, and please allow us to make a small dent in your many expenses like gas, CDs, dinner, by accepting this envelope with some of tonight's receipts.
I am a DJ myself. I DJ for free for local non-profit milonga, and if a non-profit event involves a road trip, I like to get gas money (without the gas money, it would cost me more to DJ somewhere for free than for dancers to go dancing there locally). If I DJ somewhere for free, I bring several friends who get in for free. Often they are cute girls and/or good dancers, and always nice people, so they are a welcome addition to the event.
There are places where I wouldn't DJ if they paid me money or held a gun to my head.
Beginning DJs are often interested in free gigs because it allows them to gain experience and establish a reputation. It is also a service to the community to give new DJs a chance to develop.
Best regards
Tine
"Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM> wrote:
Paul Akmajian & Karen Reck wrote:
>This post is from Karen:
>----------
>anonymous (via Seth) wrote <<<>or his employer to make him play more milonga/vals, or use a more
>conventional tanda format, or deal with whatever gripes people have?>>>>
>----------
>Alexis Cousein wrote <<<>>>
>-----------
>
>This brings up something I've been meaning to ask some of the DJs &
>organizers, but may as well put out to the whole group: I assume that DJs in
>Buenos Aires are paid (it's both their vocation & avocation), but elsewhere
>(at local milongas, festivals, workshop weekends) how often are tango DJs
>are paid and how much?
>
>I ask because it's an issue our local community needs to address, and
>because I want to begin paying visiting DJs, at least at events where I'm an
>organizer. I believe this has only happened once here when the DJ
>specifically requested it. I'd like to hear how other communities handle
>this, realizing it's a complex issue.
If it's your event, pay them. It's between you and the DJ.
>For one thing, it seems there's nothing more contentious in a tango
>community than the subject of music.
The most contentious issue in the communities I participate in (in
Iowa) is money.
>In smaller communities (like
>Albuquerque and Santa Fe where we each have one regular weekly milonga, one
>weekly practica & between us host an additional milonga or two each weekend)
>when dancers speak up critically about a DJ's music it generally leads to
>hurt feelings &/or community rifts. DJs are often tango-friends; if you
>don't care for their music format/selections it's more diplomatic to vote
>with your feet, but as has been mentioned, not as effective.
Can we engage in a process of education? There are some tremendous
resources for the Tango DJ available:
-- Stephen Brown's TejasTango.com site
-- Tine's Tango DJ list
Most people want to do a good job. The problem is when they think they
can do a good job, but are incompetent know-nothings; thus they lack the
ability to step back from their performance and see that it can improve
drastically.
Incompetence of this sort extends up and down the levels of organization
from dancers to teachers, tango club committees, etc. In the case of
some local organizers I know in Iowa, they think good DJ'ing is a luxury
instead of a necessity: I actually heard the words "We may not be ready
for DJ'ing", come out of one womans's mouth. I know a guy who played
an extended "New Age" wail by Enya, lacking any sort of beat ... and
had the atrocious gall to call it "alternative" tango.
>Then, there's the issue of how DJs are selected: the DJ is the organizer (as
>when I organize an event w/ my business partner & she DJs); the DJ is
>invited by the organizer (as in the case of events presented by my small
>business partnership); or the DJs are selected by a committee (as is the
>case with our local tango club). In the case of clubs/committees there would
>have to be more specific (than generally exists) criteria regarding who, how
>& in what cases DJs are paid.
How do you handle things like workshops? Can you be a club member and
promote your own workshops? I've agreed to be a good little boy and
not bring in any teachers on my own, but I have to say that decision
isn't sitting well with me.
>Also, here the DJ not only works as a volunteer, but is often the person
>responsible for equipment set-up and break-down -- and often the first in
>and last out -- plus they have the personal expense of buying/collecting
>their music. Local tango club DJs are currently recompensed by not paying
>admission to weekly club events (applies to all events whether they are
>DJing then or not). For events I organize w/ my business partner (our 3X
>yearly workshop weekends + a few others), we pay for the DJ's dinner/drinks
>at the event. Visiting instructors, including Robert Hauk, Robin Thomas and
>Alex Krebs have DJed without additional fees during workshop weekends here.
>Anyway, I think it's past time we do more -- please share how you do this in
>your communities.
Beware of the crowd that wants something for nothing: they'll use words
like "Capitalism" and "Socialism" in connection with tango activities.
Makes me sick to the stomach.
--
Christopher L. Everett
Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com
MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com
************************
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