3307 Political rants as flames; non-tango no kidding
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:32:37 -0800
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: Political rants as flames; non-tango no kidding
I have always felt that most of the flames on this list are not only
harmless and are occasionally amusing, or at least are easy to ignore, but
the latest from Sr. Maselli has penetrated even my tolerance.
Extending disagreements about tango to blame individuals for actions of
their governments is unacceptable. Even if these vicious words came from a
citizen of a society entirely blameless, socially, politically and
economically enlightened (has such a society ever existed?), they would be
unacceptable. If an individual Estadounidense (of either sex) can be charged
with the wrong-doings of a government he or she may or may not have voted
for, why should we not blame Sr. Maselli for the persons thrown out of
planes by his Navy? Even if the victims were friends of his? It is not the
fault of US citizens that we were born in what has become, for better, or
probably worse, the only superpower on the planet, and which frequently
misuses this power. This is not an international political forum; even if it
were such a rant would be rejected.
I hope never to find myself in a conversation with Sr. Maselli on any topic.
He obviously suffers from severely flawed logic, to put it as politely as
possible.
Barbara
----- Original Message -----
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:06:50 -0600
From: Hector Maselli <maselli@GATE.NET>
Subject: Re: Political rants as flames; non-tango no kidding
On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Barbara Garvey wrote:
> why should we not blame Sr. Maselli for the persons thrown out of
> planes by his Navy? Even if the victims were friends of his?
I think you should, that should improve your ability to understand
tango and hide the racist nature of your society.
In this list we have been blamed for not caring about the tango, for
proscribing it, for abandoning it, for being greedy, for having chips
on our shoulder, for defending our heritage, and for being proud of who
we are.
I sympathize with you Ms. Garvey because your feathers have been
ruffled and your red, white and blue racism exposed. We don't like it
either when somebody else sticks a finger up our ass.
When you get to be my age, you may be able to understand that people
merit respect regardless of where they come from and whether they can
speak your language or not. Then, and only then you can come up and
question somebody else's logic.
So let's hear you moderate your compatriots when they treat our country
and countrymen as some kind of banana republic with no life or history
of our own.
Hector Maselli
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:49:57 -0500
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Political rants as flames; non-tango no kidding
I would be willing to bet you, Sr. Maselli, that Barbara is a lot older
than you are and certainly she's not a racist. I've danced with
Barbara and I can tell you she's a very gracious lady.
El Bandito de Tango
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:06:50 -0600
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Political rants as flames; non-tango no kidding
On Mar 18, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Barbara Garvey wrote:
> why should we not blame Sr. Maselli for the persons thrown out of
> planes by his Navy? Even if the victims were friends of his?
I think you should, that should improve your ability to understand
tango and hide the racist nature of your society.
In this list we have been blamed for not caring about the tango, for
proscribing it, for abandoning it, for being greedy, for having chips
on our shoulder, for defending our heritage, and for being proud of
who
we are.
I sympathize with you Ms. Garvey because your feathers have been
ruffled and your red, white and blue racism exposed. We don't like it
either when somebody else sticks a finger up our ass.
When you get to be my age, you may be able to understand that people
merit respect regardless of where they come from and whether they can
speak your language or not. Then, and only then you can come up and
question somebody else's logic.
So let's hear you moderate your compatriots when they treat our
country
and countrymen as some kind of banana republic with no life or history
of our own.
Hector Maselli
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:19:43 -0800
From: Sean Dockery <sean13@MYREALBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: Political rants as flames; non-tango no kidding
May I quote:
"When you get to be my age, you may be able to understand that people merit respect regardless of where they come from and whether they can speak yo=
ur language or not."
- Hector Maselli
Please join us in following your advice.
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:04:36 -0800
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: Political rants as flames; non-tango no kidding
Sr. Maselli --
Note I do not use the usual greetings, "Estimado", "Distinguido", "Muy senor
mio" indicating respect. I do not respect you, Sr. Maselli. Not because of
your views on tango, but because you totally disrespect the concept of the
individual and his/her right to an opinion regardless of nationality or
persuasion.
I respect the concept that tango is more easily understood by those who grew
up listening to the music, and regret that, by accident of birth, I, and so
many other apasionados de tango, don't have that advantage. Perhaps you
could feel compassion for us?
However, as regards the dance: a very small number of those dancing tango in
Argentina today learned it at their father's knee. Most learned it in the
1990s inspired by Europeans and the dreaded Americans (I'm sensitive that
Argentines, Mexicans, Brazilians etc are also Americans so am using this
terminology as does Sr. Maselli) who traveled to Buenos Aires in ever
greater numbers. When my husband and I first went to Buenos Aires in early
1987 there were only a few hundred tango dancers, almost all over 50 years
old, most of whom are no longer active. Aside from these milongueros there
was a handful of younger professional dancers, or those training to be
professionals, dancing. We saw almost no young social dancers before about
1994.
> When you get to be my age, you may be able to understand that people
> merit respect regardless of where they come from and whether they can
> speak your language or not. Then, and only then you can come up and
> question somebody else's logic.
Yes, Sr. Maselli, as has been suggested on this List, I bet I am older than
you. I wouldn't even be surprised if I had been dancing tango longer than
you have. Also I do speak Spanish, not perfectly but with a fair knowledge
of Argentine usage and some Lunfardo. As for logic, I often hear the term
"!logico!, in conversation with Argentine friends, as opposed to here in
Mexico, where I have not yet heard that expression. Does that mean that
Argentines are more logical than Mexicans, or "Americans"? Lo seriously
dudo.
BTW Sr. Maselli, your English is wonderfully good. No way could I write as
fluently in Spanish having not spent most of my life in an Hispanic country
or pursuing a PhD. Perhaps you are a renowned scholar.
>I think you should, that should improve your ability to understand
> tango and hide the racist nature of your society.
Is there a difference between racism and the vitriol unleashed on Americans
here??? Although I, and a huge percentage of U.S. citizens do not consider
ourselves racists, I believe that a certain amount of racism is probably
unavoidable in any society, including those south of the Equator where
undesirable persons of color, native or imported, have been eliminated. When
you find anyone completely free of the subtle influences of his/her
environment please let us all know.
> In this list we have been blamed for not caring about the tango, for
> proscribing it, for abandoning it, for being greedy, for having chips
> on our shoulder, for defending our heritage, and for being proud of who
> we are.
By 'we', meaning Argentines, surely there are some who have practiced all of
the above crimes against tango, as well as many who have cherished it,
defended it, selflessly culivated it. And then there is Sr. Maselli.
Chau, it's time to watch the sunset.
Barbara
