5434 Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:36:54 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
>>From what I understand and correct me if I am wrong, Tango through evolutionary processes was born out of Milonga.
My query is how come Milonga appears to be left as an almost side note to Tango. I mean how come there are not Milonga clubs that predominantly play Milongas rather then normal break from the Tangos?
I am thinking in terms of comparing it to Salsa and Salsa clubs, is there such a thing a Milonga that just plays Milongas?
And moreso one wonders why Tango became more popular then it's energetic parent.
'Mash
London,UK
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:06:43 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
I think here is your confusion:
It's generally agreed that modern Argentine Tango grew out of a dance of the late 1800's that was called "milonga." However that "milonga" is not at all the same as what we call milonga today. Suggest you search archives for some knowledgeable discussions explaining the terminology. I remember the discussion, but don't remember the details.
J
TangoMoments.com
> From: mashdot@toshine.net
> Subject: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
>
> >From what I understand and correct me if I am wrong, Tango through evolutionary processes was born out of Milonga.
>
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:52:03 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>, "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
>>From what I read, tango was born from flamenco, the Habanera and milonga.
>>>From what I understand and correct me if I am wrong, Tango through
>>evolutionary processes was born out of Milonga.
>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:13:12 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
> From: 'Mash <mashdot@toshine.net>
> From what I understand and correct me if I am wrong, Tango through evolutionary processes was born out of Milonga.
>
> My query is how come Milonga appears to be left as an almost side note to Tango. I mean how come there are not Milonga clubs that predominantly play Milongas rather then normal break from the Tangos?
>
> I am thinking in terms of comparing it to Salsa and Salsa clubs, is there such a thing a Milonga that just plays Milongas?
>
> And moreso one wonders why Tango became more popular then it's energetic parent.
>
> 'Mash
> London,UK
I have recieved a few replies about my first line (born out of) but nothing yet on my actual question. I am going to try and ask a few people this weekend.
To be more clear, I am wondering why the predominant dance is Tango and not Milonga?
That the faster and more energetic dance seems to have a backseat to Tango. Last night I started looking around for videos on Milonga and it can easily be seen that Tango content far outweighs Milonga.
I just wonder what it is about Milonga that makes it less attractive as a dance form in it's own right and that you don't tend to meet people who prefer it over Tango. And why if my guess is correct that there is no such thing as a pure Milonga night in the world.
'Mash
London,UK
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:27:53 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>, "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
why if my guess is correct that there is no such thing as a pure Milonga
night in the world.
maybe because that would be equivalent to an airobics class that goes on and
on and on...
>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:49:59 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 01:27:53AM +0900, Astrid wrote:
>
> why if my guess is correct that there is no such thing as a pure Milonga
> night in the world.
>
> maybe because that would be equivalent to an airobics class that goes on and
> on and on...
But what about Salsa clubs, and dance clubs (which is my background.) I just find it unusual that though there are more and more younger people entering Tango along with the new younger electronic Tango music that we (the younger lot) are not pushing milonga as a dance form.
I have to say there are some times when my day has been fantastic, and I struggle to get into the intense melancholic(ness) of Tango. No number of embellishments seem to help :)
Maybe I am trying to put a square peg in a round hole but I am going to try and see if there are any who share the same wonder.
'Mash
London,UK
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:28:53 -0800
From: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>, Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
my 1 cent contribution to the tango vs. milonga question.
both my wife and i are atheletic. my wife is also a profesional dance instructor (not tango). tango allows us to express ourselves with big, strong moves, and to combine our other dance and movement forms (martial arts) with tango. we can move from open to closed embraces, and express ourselves using the various tango "basics", and some moves "borrowed" from other dances including milonga. for us tango is "more fun" because we can see each other and "play", of course, we can "feel" each other in both tango and milonga, but only tango lets us see each other move. and i gotta say, i love to see a beautiful dancer move.
over the time we have been dancing, we have brought lots of our friends to tango events. maybe it is just the freaks that we hang out with, but they all seem to like the big move open embrace dancing, because it is "more dramatic", "more emotional" and "more fun".
finally, because often the girls with us are athletic and experienced dancers (not tango), there is "some buzz" that surrounds them with the leader crowd. almost 100% of them have been run off, by the close embrace dancers who they have called "merv the perv", "stinky old men", and the most recent "PDD" (poopy diaper dancing). these girls tend to love to dance tango with their own "flairs", which usually includes other latin dances, exotic dance, and ballet. i am always amazed at their ability to move, and their willingness to "dance", so it seems that it is the "confining" movements of milonga that they don't like. now whether the dance they end up doing is "formal tango" i doubt it, but it is fun, beautiful, energetic, and resembles tango ALOT.
the bottom line (as i see it). many people like the big movements that let them "dance". they like to see and share visual cues and emotions with the person that they are dancing with. men (the pigs that they are) love to see beautiful women move beautifully. for some people the dance is more about self expression, movement and intimacy, and tango seems to offer more of these things. milonga offers close physical contact, but not the exchange of emotion that a more open tango does (as i see it).
david
The Tangonista
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:47:27 -0500
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
YAMP (yet another milonga post)
Just as there are several flavors of tango there are several flavors of
milonga (my experience is US).
I originally learned milonga as a quickly moving and sassy dance that
travels over the floor. In close embrace the traspie and other rhythmic
'stops' and small shuffles are interesting, but feel deliberately
constrained for such a sweeping musical phrase. I don't know any other
type of modern-day social dance similar to this more open and traveling
type of milonga, which is one of the reasons I really love it.
(Quickstep and viennese come to mind but are smooth style). American
samba travels similarly to a bouncy beat, but of course is extremely
different in moves, mood, music, etc and not as compelling.
The moods of tango and milonga music are of course very different. I
like the tango for the tango and I like the milonga for the milonga.
But the type of milonga I originally learned is probably my favorite of
all dance styles, bar none -- so I also wish there were more milonga at
a milonga. I get tired of tango-tango-tango-tango.
I can dance salsa or lindy hop for hours so to me there seems to be
comparatively very little exertion at a typical milonga; I frequently
get cold between dances and have to dress much more warmly.
meaning of life wrote:
> my 1 cent contribution to the tango vs. milonga question.
>
> both my wife and i are atheletic. my wife is also a profesional dance instructor (not tango). tango allows us to express ourselves with big, strong moves, and to combine our other dance and movement forms (martial arts) with tango. we can move from open to closed embraces, and express ourselves using the various tango "basics", and some moves "borrowed" from other dances including milonga. for us tango is "more fun" because we can see each other and "play", of course, we can "feel" each other in both tango and milonga, but only tango lets us see each other move. and i gotta say, i love to see a beautiful dancer move.
>
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
Arborlaw - a legal blog for entrepreneurs and small business
https://arborlaw.com
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:13:38 -0800 (PST)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
"I mean how come there are not Milonga clubs that predominantly
play Milongas rather then normal break from the Tangos?"
Probably for the same reason that there aren't "Two Step Clubs" ,
but there are country western dance places where you get not only
two step, but waltz, Cowboy Cha Cha, Night Club Two Step, West
Coast Swing, lines dances, etc.
.
And, although I'm not a regular at any salsa venues, I think they
don't just play salsa, but also play marengue.
I've even heard that at waltz and West Coast Swing venues, they play
non waltz, and songs that people don't do WCS to.
If they played only tango at tango events, I probably wouldn't attend.
I enjoy the variety that both milonga and vals create. I can only
assume that other people enjoy the variety, too.
Regarding this statement...
"I struggle to get into the intense melancholic(ness) of Tango.
No number of embellishments seem to help :)"
I keep reading about dancing with women who feel like they aren't
there (sorry, are light), and I believe that is the crux of the problem.
You stay on your own axis, and I'll stay on mine.
If there is no intensity in the connection between the two partners
when dancing to a tango, what is there?
And, regarding milonga in close embrace as being confining...
It ain't necessarily so. In fact, I can burn up a lot of floor, and no
doubt a lot of calories, when there is a milonga and there is room
to move. But then, I like to go apilado, which keeps the feet apart,
and "energizes the embrace", rather than the more "on your own
axis" close embrace. And, I treat it more as a one step, "splitting
the steps" only when the musicians play prominently on the usually
unemphazied beats of the 2/4 time signature.
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:58:06 -0500
From: buffmilonguera@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: tango-l@mit.edu
this thread about milonga and tango has been interesting - I think that
I read (I may be wrong) that women don't like milonga, or prefer tango.
In our community, the women/followers all love milonga and when they
hear it, start searching for a leader who can lead it....some new
leads, however, treat milonga like a really fast tango - and that's
just awful!
Have you joined the Buffalo Argentine Tango Society Yahoo! group yet?
It's easy, and the best way to make sure you know what we're doing and
what's going on with the Argentine tango in and around Buffalo......go
Society > follow the directions to join BATS_tango. Thanks!
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:40:47 -0600
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
I think you may be wrong, because it is the same in this community - women
love a good milonga! I am not allowed to sit out milongas. I'd better find a
follow to lead during a milonga, since there are too few men in the
community who can lead it well. Of course, that's fine with me because I
love to lead them as much as follow them!
Frankly, if I had my way, everybody would learn milonga first.
Loisa Donnay
Minneapolis, MN
>
> this thread about milonga and tango has been interesting - I think that
> I read (I may be wrong) that women don't like milonga, or prefer tango.
> In our community, the women/followers all love milonga and when they
> hear it, start searching for a leader who can lead it....some new
> leads, however, treat milonga like a really fast tango - and that's
> just awful!
>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:57:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
--- Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net> wrote:
> I originally learned milonga as a quickly moving and
> sassy dance that
> travels over the floor. In close embrace the traspie and
> other rhythmic
> 'stops' and small shuffles are interesting, but feel
> deliberately
> constrained for such a sweeping musical phrase.
Hi Carol,
I think you're referring to milonga liso, which has those
longer steps. I learned that first, as well, but I now
prefer milonga traspie. Anyway, there are different types
of milonga music that call for different types of dancing.
I would describe the music for milonga liso as
one-step-per-beat, whereas music for milonga traspie has a
stronger habanera-like rhythm.
Ever try leading milonga traspie and it just doesn't work?
Probably because the music is more suited to milonga liso.
That might also give you a feeling of being constrained.
I'm sure more knowledgeable folks on this list can
elaborate more on the music.
Oh, and I agree with Lois and Buffmilonguera that women
tend to love milonga and enjoy working on it. The guys
tend to be afraid of it and work on their milonga with less
enthusiam. Sean thinks that's because women may negatively
compare a beginning man's milonga to his tango. Thus,
inexperienced men will sit out milonga tandas and wait for
tangos.
Happy Milongas,
Trini de Pittsburgh
P.S. Ney Melo (with Jennifer Bratt), who will be in Ann
Arbor next weekend, teaches an excellent class in milonga
in which he uses traspie to accent the really fast parts of
a milonga. It really changed how I heard the phrasing of
music.
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:02:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Carol,
>
> I think you're referring to milonga liso, which has those
> longer steps.
Sorry, Carol. I should have said "milonga caminito" and
not milonga liso (which I got confused with tango liso).
At least, that is what I have heard it's called.
Trini
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:47:05 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
I think the reason many men don't enjoy milonga is because they can't dance.
And I don't mean they can't dance milonga; I mean they can't dance - period.
I honestly believe that many men can do tango, and even do it quite well,
without ever learning how to actually dance. This isn't possible with milonga.
You can't just do milonga, you have to dance it. So many men stay seated.
And I agree with what TFH likes to say - most women can dance - and I think
that's why they love milonga.
There's a huge difference between doing tango and dancing tango and many
people just don't understand this. If men concentrated more on milonga than
tango then they might just learn how to dance and their tango would improve
enormously. I remember a video of Tete where he described the feeling of a
Vals as - like flying - that's because he can dance.
Keith, HK
On Fri Jan 11 10:57 , "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" sent:
>Oh, and I agree with Lois and Buffmilonguera that women
>tend to love milonga and enjoy working on it. The guys
>tend to be afraid of it and work on their milonga with less
>enthusiam. Sean thinks that's because women may negatively
>compare a beginning man's milonga to his tango. Thus,
>inexperienced men will sit out milonga tandas and wait for
>tangos.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:28:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave Schmitz <dschmitz007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thus,
> inexperienced men will sit out milonga tandas and wait for
> tangos.
I love to dance milonga, especially to 1930s recordings including
Canaro, Donato, Lomuto & D'Arienzo. D'Agostino & DiSarli from the
1940s are nice too.
However, at festivals I'm often sitting out milonga tandas unless I
know someone who dances milonga con traspie. I prefer to sit and enjoy
the music than to put two people into an uncomfortable tanda.
On the other hand, I've enjoyed nice milonga tandas with total
beginners who've never danced milonga before. No bad habits! Milonga
can be nice with beginner women.
DJ Dave de Denver
PS: I'm hugely disappointed in festival deejays who play only three
milongas in a tanda. Hey, they're short. Play five! Milonga does not
need to be a barn burner. It can be tranquil & playful.
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:14:09 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Popularity of Milonga (the dance)
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Dave wrote:
> On the other hand, I've enjoyed nice milonga tandas with total
> beginners who've never danced milonga before. No bad habits!
I agree. But I think the reason beginner women can be led in a fun milonga is more structural than behavioral. Not counting traspie, which you wouldn't be leading a beginner into anyway, it's rhythmically very regular, and you don't put many pauses in milonga. I tell them, just take smallish steps, and step on every beat, left-right-left-right. It works very well.
On the other question of why it is less popular, if my personal history might be applicable to other beginners, when I started I was very intimidated by milonga. As a beginner I was very much into my head, and I literally couldn't think fast enough to do milonga. But then I started dating a woman who Loved milonga, and, well, I had no choice but to learn it. Eventually I learned how to do things without thinking, and now I love milonga too.
J
TangoMoments.com
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