5786 Preserving the character of the dance
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:41:00 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Preserving the character of the dance
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>
Dear Jan you say "It is a beautiful tango "
I did not express an opinion in reference to the beauty of the dance, this is a matter of personal taste. I did like it as well. I think that everybody should dance any way they like to do it, I just tried to clarify to Jack that the confusion comes from the use of the word "Milonga" in reference to this type of dance, but if anybody wish to use it, this is fine with me as well.
IMO (I am sure others may disagree) that particular form of dancing did not preserve the "character" of the dance, it looks totally foreign to me, something totally disconnected from its Argentine roots. The moves are those of tango but neither the music or the dance itself gives the feeling orlooks like A. T. of any style that I know.(Trina points that some dancers do dance preserving the tango character and I agree, some of them do.
Below you will see Chicho and Fabian dancing nuevo tango both to traditional and alternative music but preserving the "Character" of the dance.
The first time around,(early 20th century) Tango was changed in England to make it more like the other ballroom dances: a steady beat was created for the music, the choreography was changed so that both members of the couple performed the same foot work, one the mirror of the other, the embrace was reshaped to adopt a V figure instead of the original A shape, the partners do not look to each other, jerking movements of the head and very long steps were added,the dance steps were changed to a sequence of Slow, slow, quick, quick, slow with possible variations of this sequence.
A new dance was created: The International Tango, which is beautiful as well but that does not have the original Argentine Character oor feeling. The American (ballroom) and Finish tangos are variations of the International Tango; they are beautiful dances but of a different character as well.
I do not have any objection to the creation of other dances based in A.T., I just wanted to give my opinion in reference to Jack's question : "What is this? I am confused, is this tango?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI Portland Milonga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfeT8esFMUk Practica x exhibition to traditional tango music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNdezMXlZgM Chicho at Practica X exhibition to non traditional tango music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GfTum67AQE Fabian Salas exhibition to traditional tango music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL16h0rMmYU&feature=related
Fabian Salas exhibition to non traditional tango music
Respectfully, Sergio
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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:59:53 -0500
From: Jessica Douglas <jlrdouglas@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Preserving the character of the dance
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
With not too much regret folks, I am saying goodbye to this list.
This latest of a thousand arguments over what is nuevo and whether it
is evil convinces me that I should spend more time dancing (milonguero
style, salon or nuevo depending on the music or the partner) and less
time reading pointless list posts.
Enjoy your attempts to micro-classify what cannot be classified. For
me it is a huge waste of time.
Jessica.
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:29:06 +0200
From: ECSEDY ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Preserving the character of the dance
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
> IMO (I am sure others may disagree) that particular form of dancing did not preserve the "character" of the dance, it looks totally foreign to me, something totally disconnected from its Argentine roots. The moves are those of tango but neither the music or the dance itself gives the feeling orlooks like A. T. of any style that I know.(Trina points that some dancers do dance preserving the tango character and I agree, some of them do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preservation
I believe this is the closest definition that may apply:
'the retention of cultural heritage for the future'
'Retention', 'heritage' and all this for 'the future' (which suggests it
does exist now, but is already threatened so that it requires concious
effort to keep some of it as it was)
So, no museum then? :)
Obviously, museums are needed. You can see things from different eras.
It is enlightening, it is inspiring.
However, I am not Amish, so living the past may not be for me. I guess
this is true for many people. Nevertheless, this strong conservative
rethoric ('nuevo is not tango', 'you need to dance a certain style a
certain way') usually keeps such people in confusion, especially when
they are relatively new to this dance. Quite a lot of these new people
will turn away from tango as they can't find themselves in it and will
find the petty bickering of dancers/teachers against the ideas
represented by some other dancers/teachers repelling.
When we are debating about nuevo, I don't say you should not dance the
way you want. I say exactly the opposite: LET everyone decide how s/he
wants to dance (decision is not between styles you predefined, it is a
free choice of what and how to include). I usually never tell my
students what 'style' I am teaching them - not unless they ask. Even
then, I only say what people _usually_ say about it and how styles are
_usually_ defined.
Cheers,
Aron
--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 20 66-36-006
https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 17:08:38 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Preserving the character of the dance
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>
Aron you say: "When we are debating about nuevo, I don't say you should not dance the way you want. I say exactly the opposite: LET everyone decide how s/he wants to dance (decision is not between styles you predefined, it is a free choice of what and how to include)."
Character is the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.
You teach tango but you do not tell them the way they should dance, you let them dance the way they want to dance.
I have seen you dance, you dance Nuevo Tango but preserving the character of the A.T. you do not do movements with your body, arms or hips that do not belong to the A.T.
The good teacher knows how to prevent the beginner student from adopting "bad" habits.
When you start teaching, let's say milonga and you notice that your student walks bouncing up and down as many foreigners do, you have to prevent this "out of character" move from becoming a permanent bad habit, so you tell the student - do not bounce up and down - this is done to preserve the character of any dance, Rumba, Cha-cha, Samba, Polka, you name it.
I cannot allow a student dance tango as if it was Fox-trot or salsa or swing,
or dance swing as it was samba and I am sure you do not do it either.
To preserve the character of a dance does not mean that the dance is thretened.
I, as an instructor have to decide what I am going to teach, if I am going to teach tango I must teach tango, prevent and correct bad habits in my students.
On another subject it is "interesting" that when we discuss certain topics such as Tango styles or the feminine and masculine roles in tango or some other subjects some people invariable pick up their marbles and leave in disgust.
Have a nice day, Sergio
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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 07:54:48 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Subject: Re: Preserving the character of the dance
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
I have to agree with Jessica Douglas and in a way, she is back leading me
and I am following in her footsteps and herewith have modified how I receive
messages from Tango-L.
I have found the discussions from Aron very thoughtful and have for the most
part agreed with him. Whereas the responses to his posts have been like
boys engaged in a competition at the urinal.
More importantly, in the last few days I have been in correspondence with
Dierdre which made me take stock on: nuevo, life in BsAs, gringos and the
dominance of leaders navel gazing on Tango-L, whereas all she wants is a
bloody good dance. Maybe one day Dierdre we can can catch-up and see if I
can measure up.
So picking-up my marbles...........
V
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:28:45 -0400
From: Kathryn Johns <tangoartist@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Preserving the character of the dance
To: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Cc: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>
<370d16c10910081628s79d69ebao256e7b23126dd153@mail.gmail.com>
Maybe we are on the road to _deconstructing_tango and,in so doing,
it will,by itself, get back to it's origins...no _right_or_wrong_simply
the pleasure of reading another persons energy.
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Sergio Vandekier
<sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Aron you say: "When we are debating about nuevo, I don't say you should not dance the way you want. I say exactly the opposite: LET everyone decide how s/he wants to dance (decision is not between styles you predefined, it is a free choice of what and how to include)."
>
> Character is the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.
>
> You teach tango but you do not tell them the way they should dance, you let them dance the way they want to dance.
>
> I have seen you dance, you dance Nuevo Tango but preserving the character of the A.T. you do not do movements with your body, arms or hips that do not belong to the A.T.
>
> The good teacher knows how to prevent the beginner student from adopting "bad" habits.
>
> When you start teaching, let's say milonga and you notice that your student walks bouncing up and down as many foreigners do, you have to prevent this "out of character" move from becoming a permanent bad habit, so you tell the student - do not bounce up and down - this is done to preserve the character of any dance, Rumba, Cha-cha, Samba, Polka, you name it.
>
> I cannot allow a student dance tango as if it was Fox-trot or salsa or swing,
> or dance swing as it was samba and I am sure you do not do it either.
>
> To preserve the character of a dance does not mean that the dance is thretened.
>
> I, as an instructor have to decide what I am going to teach, if I am going to teach tango I must teach tango, prevent and correct bad habits in my students.
>
> On another subject it is "interesting" that when we discuss certain topics such as Tango styles or the feminine and masculine roles in tango or some other subjects some people invariable pick up their marbles and leave in disgust.
>
> Have a nice day, Sergio
>
>
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> https://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
>
