4653 Private Lessons v Group Classes
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 23:32:01 -0500
From: "Keith" <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Private Lessons v Group Classes
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Chris, UK wrote:
"one private lesson is worth is worth is more like minus five group classes hereabouts, since the value of the average group class is negative."
Chis has told us previously that he's attended group classes with more than 60 different teachers, presumably some of them more than once. If what he says is true, he must have spent a fortune on private lessons just to get back to beginner level.
Nobody would seriously disagree that private lessons are far more valuable than group classes when learning to dance. However, not everyone can afford the US$50 to US$150 that private lessons cost. Also, many students prefer the fun and comraderie of learning in a group environment, rather than the more serious one-on-one private lessons.
The fact remains that, in this day and age, hundreds of thousands of dancers around the world have learned Tango from group classes, without ever taking a single private lesson. Without group classes, Tango just wouldn't exist in most communities. But, by far the worst thing any student can do is try to learn any kind of dance without proper instruction; I've seen it many times and the results are often disasterous. One major problem is that people don't like tell their friends that they're dancing badly or that they look awful. The result is they go from bad to worse and no one says anything until, in the end, it becomes an embarrassment to the Tango community resulting in jokes and sniggers. Does that help the student who doesn't take proper instruction? Of course, if you're young, female and pretty this will never happen as there will always be lots of good male dancers prepared to help. But what about the less popular majority? The truth is they just fade away from the Ta
ngo scene because nobody will dance with them.
And Chris, why did it take more than 60 group classes with different teachers before you finally realised they were totally useless?
Chris, UK also wrote:
"there's no place for rote-learning and memorisation of movements in salon tango. Tango is improvised - the moves come from the feeling of each moment. Memorised moves degenerate the dancing into choreography."
AJ Azure replied:
"Again I'm not a dancer but, it seems to me that if you consider that in music improvisation can not be done with out a basis of patterns, theory, understanding of the key, etc. I submit you can't improvise, i.e. run till you can crawl, i.e. Learn some moves. There has to be a basis for improvisation in anything."
How absolutely true. AJ may not be a dancer, but he clearly knows a lot more than Chris when it comes to how to learn Tango. Improvising without first spending hundreds or thousands of hours learning and practicing the many movements of Tango? What a load of rubbish. Chris has clearly never attended a class in Buenos Aires where, in a 3-hour class, 2-hours might be spent walking back and forth. Perhaps Chris would tell the teacher to forget about practicing the many facets of the walk and say .... "let's just improvise!". For our American cousins, that's sarcasm, by the way.
Regards to everybody,
Keith
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:24:53 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Private Lessons v Group Classes
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Keith wrote:
"...Nobody would seriously disagree that private lessons are far more
valuable than group classes when learning to dance. However, not everyone
can afford the US$50 to US$150 that private lessons cost. Also, many
students prefer the fun and comraderie of learning in a group environment,
rather than the more serious one-on-one private lessons...
Keith"
Well, you know what this message is about.
Keith,
It look like you are very right in stating of usefulness of group classes.
Your message sound so solid and has a lot of common sense. And I was
inclined to agree with it.
But here I started to remember myself.
During the first year of tango I took group classes almost every day. And as
far as I remember what have I learned there? Memorizing important figures,
steps. But most of it: ability to see what teachers show in seemingly
unbreakable dance: it was so difficult to learn to see simple things in
their innumerable and complex sequences most often without any physical
explanation how to do it. Very little about connection. Those clumsy ladies
as partners.. I was thrown in the see to learn to swim and I was drowning !
The only understanding came to me after I obtained enough of experience of
dealing with chaos: I have learned how to swim. But this is not a dance yet.
The understanding of dance started to came to me only when some more
experienced people were generous enough to give a dance or two for me. I had
only 1 private lesson during my beginning era, and it made tremendous impact
on me !!!!!!!!!!!!! It was Brigitta Winkler. Also I still do remember those
several dances and dancers which actually taught me how to dance in close
embrace right on the dance floor! I have learned a lot of simple things
never taught observing actions of dancers on the dance floor.
I was very thankful to all these group lessons. I learned to recognize, I am
not afraid to say it, truth when I see the dance, and it was a key for my
success for learning with videos. I bought most of them and immediately I
was able to see who is what and far beyond usual experience. I could not do
it without those tiresome group lessons. Thanks!
Group classes are useful. For learning very basic things, developing basic
abilities ( for someone, I had it) learning to swim in the chaos of ideas
and visual images, making friends, but learning tango dancing comes only in
the dance with more experienced people. It is absurd to say otherwise.
It does not matter how many thousands of classes you take. It is easy, but
not enough. Dancing comes only after you make a significant effort to
actually dance !
Igor Polk.
PS. I would very doubt the value of most private lessons for the real life
Chris and Keith are talking about. Teachers are too good...
Good mix of everything is the solution: group classes, practicing,
workshops, privates, video, participation in shows, writing about, even
one's own teaching. But most imporant: dancing !!! Without it nothing will
help. You have to find a dance within !
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 21:12:01 +0000
From: "Jay Rabe" <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Private Lessons v Group Classes
To: tango-l@mit.edu
My 2 cents on the topic...
A lot of valid comments about the shortcomings of group classes. But the
comments are aimed at a moving target. Not all group classes are created
equal. When I first started learning tango, group classes taught the D8CB
(of all things!).
But times have changed, and almost no one still teaches that way. I have
seen some group classes at Portland festivals that focused on step patterns,
but I have seen others that were entirely technique-oriented. I've seen Alex
Krebs teach group classes with 75 - 100 people in his small (for that number
of students) studio, and work almost exclusively on technique.
Another variation: I teach small group classes at my home/studio in SE
Portland. With no more than 5 couples, even though it is a "group" class, I
can give a lot of individual attention and customized instruction to each
student, almost as good as a private lesson.
J
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