2777 Question about: "The Intention"
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:16:51 -0500
From: susan_munoz@SBCGLOBAL.NET
Subject: Question about: "The Intention"
Hi Everyone,
I am new to this List and consider myself to be somewhere between an
advanced beginner and intermediate level (understanding that all things
are relative and different leaders/instructors would have differing
opinions). At this point in my tango journey, I'm more interested in
technique so that I continuously improve as a follower. I would
appreciate your advice or help in understanding the term "intention" as
it is used in instruction or workshops.
In workshops, instructors often refer to "The Intention".... "Follow the
Intention".... "Lead with Intention"..... QUESTION: From your personal
point of view, would you please help me understand "Where does this
'Intention' first emit from?" In other words, where should I (the
follower) first be physically feeling (or understanding) this intention?
Is it from the chest, the shoulder, the leader's right arm or any of
these depending on the style or movement? Does it differ from Leader to
Leader? Or..... when the instructor says "Follow the Intention" is s/he
merely substituting the word intention for lead.
Perhaps I'm making this more complicated than necessary but I hear the
term "intention" used often and separate enough that I'm trying to
understand if there is, in fact, a difference between the terminology of
"the intention" and "the lead" and if so, what is it, what does it mean,
and how would/should I recognize it?
Thank you for your help,
Susan
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:37:22 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
Susan Munoz wrote:
In workshops, instructors often refer to "The Intention".... "Follow the
Intention".... "Lead with Intention"..... QUESTION: From your personal
point of view, would you please help me understand "Where does this
'Intention' first emit from?"
Okay I bite:
As dance, I project my intention with the movement centered in my spleen
and projected my chest and abdomen. Women who generally try to stay
between my shoulders generally can follow what I lead.
I take a similar approach to teaching.
--Steve
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:51:56 GMT
From: michael <tangomaniac@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
Susan:
Think of a lead as an invitation. A man opens a door for you. You can SEE his intention. However, in tango women should FEEL intention. The intention comes from the man's upper body, NOT the arms. If you feel a lead from a man's arms, he is pushing you, not leading you.
The woman moves FIRST. If the man moves his feet first instead of his chest, he will walk right into the woman because the woman doesn't follow from the man's feet.
Both partner's hips should be back so that their weight is on the balls of their foot. This DOES NOT mean bend at the waist so that the posterior sticks out. There is no bending forward when the hips are pulled back.
Here is an exercise that will give you a better idea of what I'm describing. Assuming you go food shopping, imagine you are the leader when you push your shopping cart. How do you get the cart to move? Do you push it with your arms? If you do, your arms will hurt after a while. If you compress your knees and lean slightly forward onto the balls of your feet, the cart will move WITHOUT YOU TAKING A STEP. It's the same way in tango. The man signals his intention by moving his weight forward, sideways, or backwards and the woman steps. The man steps AFTER the woman. The man's right arm, wrapped around the woman's lower back, can feel how far she is stepping and the leader should match the size of her step.
Now going slightly off on a tangent, imagine the shopping cart has broken front wheels that aren't aligned straight. One wheel goes to the left while the other goes straight. You'll feel the cart wobble because it's not going straight. Now imagine being lead by a man who isn't walking straight ahead because he's afraid of stepping on your feet. He uses his arms to push you out of his way. He steps on a diagonal not straight.
If I'm not clear, come to Washington, DC. I'm going food shopping tomorrow night. You can push the cart and I'll cook for us.
Michael Ditkoff
Enjoyed dancing in San Francisco before my cruise
I'd rather be dancing argentine tango
-- susan_munoz@SBCGLOBAL.NET wrote:
Hi Everyone,
In workshops, instructors often refer to "The Intention".... "Follow the
Intention".... "Lead with Intention"..... QUESTION: From your personal
point of view, would you please help me understand "Where does this
'Intention' first emit from?" In other words, where should I (the
follower) first be physically feeling (or understanding) this intention?
Is it from the chest, the shoulder, the leader's right arm or any of
these depending on the style or movement? Does it differ from Leader to
Leader? Or..... when the instructor says "Follow the Intention" is s/he
merely substituting the word intention for lead.
Thank you for your help,
Susan
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:47:04 -0700
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
Hi Susan,
Welcome to the list. I like your question. I am not
an expert by any means but I would be happy to give
you my take on "the intention"
According to Merriam-Webster the first definition of
the word intention is "a determination to act in a
certain way". I believe that when this word is used
by tango instructors they are using it in this manner
to describe the abstract concept of the thought that
must arise before the body moves.
For instance, if you are playing darts. You observe
the dart board, you take aim and then you throw the
dart. The aim is "the intention".
Your question was:
> "Where does this
> 'Intention' first emit from?"
It comes from the mind. For example, say there is a
blue dot on a white floor. There is a man standing
near the dot. If he does not have any intention of
stepping on the dot and takes a step, he might land on
the dot, he might not. The step he takes doesn't
matter. But say that his intention is to step on the
blue dot. He observes where it is and steps directly
on it. This is the concept that using "intention" to
move describes.
Now, when there are two people involved. Say for
instance that man has a parter, her intention is to
step where he would like her to. His intention is to
have her step on the blue dot. How will he convey
this intention to her? That is the lead.
The reason that intention is so important in tango is
to enable the physical communication of the lead.
Both partners must be focused on each other. The
leader moves with the intention of moving with his
partner, placing his partner's feet, avoiding
collitions, interpreting the music through the
movements. The follower moves with the intention of
staying connected to the leader and interpreting the
music.
That is my opinion.
Hope that helps,
Rose
Portland, OR
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:24:22 +0000
From: herve michel <herve_michel1@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
The key thing about intent and intention is that agian. I go to the blind
fold or the dot on the floor. What if the milonga is dark and lit by a lone
candle. The dot may appear mauve or some toher colors.
How do you discern intent under uncertainsties?
A close embrace should stay until it is no longer needed and than it is kept
becasue it is wanted.
Herve
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>From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
>Reply-To: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
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>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Question about: "The Intention"
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:47:04 -0700
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>Hi Susan,
>
>Welcome to the list. I like your question. I am not
>an expert by any means but I would be happy to give
>you my take on "the intention"
>
>According to Merriam-Webster the first definition of
>the word intention is "a determination to act in a
>certain way". I believe that when this word is used
>by tango instructors they are using it in this manner
>to describe the abstract concept of the thought that
>must arise before the body moves.
>
>For instance, if you are playing darts. You observe
>the dart board, you take aim and then you throw the
>dart. The aim is "the intention".
>
>Your question was:
> > "Where does this
> > 'Intention' first emit from?"
>
>It comes from the mind. For example, say there is a
>blue dot on a white floor. There is a man standing
>near the dot. If he does not have any intention of
>stepping on the dot and takes a step, he might land on
>the dot, he might not. The step he takes doesn't
>matter. But say that his intention is to step on the
>blue dot. He observes where it is and steps directly
>on it. This is the concept that using "intention" to
>move describes.
>
>Now, when there are two people involved. Say for
>instance that man has a parter, her intention is to
>step where he would like her to. His intention is to
>have her step on the blue dot. How will he convey
>this intention to her? That is the lead.
>
>The reason that intention is so important in tango is
>to enable the physical communication of the lead.
>Both partners must be focused on each other. The
>leader moves with the intention of moving with his
>partner, placing his partner's feet, avoiding
>collitions, interpreting the music through the
>movements. The follower moves with the intention of
>staying connected to the leader and interpreting the
>music.
>
>That is my opinion.
>
>Hope that helps,
>Rose
>Portland, OR
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:52:47 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
I once saw Carlos Gavito at a workshop explaining this.
He took one of the women into the dance hold, stood, and then, somehow, the
woman took a step backwards. Gavito remained where he was, so she stopped
moving, and he grinned into her confused face:"Hey, where are you going?"
"Watch this again", he said. He stood, she took a step back, stopped as he
had not moved, he grinned...
Everyone looked kind of mystified, and he exclaimed with a grin:"Haa,
intention !!!"
"Watch this again !" He repeated the whole thing, exclaimed: "Ha, intention
!!". The "intention" was a movement one could hardly see from the outside
but the woman could feel it. Of course she had not moved on her own, he had
stretched himself, put a spring in his body, and his chest had moved
slightly forward, pushing the woman into her step.
So, the woman does not really "move first", the man moves, without moving
his feet yet. No magic to it, really, but Gavito certainly enjoyed
everyone's bafflement at his little demonstration.
I believe, one reason why you asked this question is, because you do not
feel any "intention" from the man. This is not entirely your fault, he may
really not be showing any "intention" yet, as your partner may be a beginner
too, and it takes a while to develop this technique, together with the right
posture.
Astrid
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 00:18:26 +0000
From: herve michel <herve_michel1@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
OK Astrid. Let's say that It's a dark room and we touch each other at times
but but always. There are a rainbow of choices ont he floor for a very
complicated dance. Let's say that you started toghether yet apart and ended
apart yet joined.
The light is suddently switch on and off and it is a very dark milongra. How
do you find oyur way back into each others arms. I know that the floor is a
guide but you see but your eyes are not adjusted to the floor fully.
Herve
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>From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
>Reply-To: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Question about: "The Intention"
>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:52:47 +0900
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>
>I once saw Carlos Gavito at a workshop explaining this.
>He took one of the women into the dance hold, stood, and then, somehow, the
>woman took a step backwards. Gavito remained where he was, so she stopped
>moving, and he grinned into her confused face:"Hey, where are you going?"
>"Watch this again", he said. He stood, she took a step back, stopped as he
>had not moved, he grinned...
>Everyone looked kind of mystified, and he exclaimed with a grin:"Haa,
>intention !!!"
>"Watch this again !" He repeated the whole thing, exclaimed: "Ha, intention
>!!". The "intention" was a movement one could hardly see from the outside
>but the woman could feel it. Of course she had not moved on her own, he had
>stretched himself, put a spring in his body, and his chest had moved
>slightly forward, pushing the woman into her step.
>So, the woman does not really "move first", the man moves, without moving
>his feet yet. No magic to it, really, but Gavito certainly enjoyed
>everyone's bafflement at his little demonstration.
>I believe, one reason why you asked this question is, because you do not
>feel any "intention" from the man. This is not entirely your fault, he may
>really not be showing any "intention" yet, as your partner may be a
>beginner
>too, and it takes a while to develop this technique, together with the
>right
>posture.
>
>Astrid
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:09:52 +0200
From: Christian Lüthen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
On 15 Sep 2004 at 8:52, astrid wrote:
> I once saw Carlos Gavito at a workshop explaining this.
> [...]
the same happens in Tai Chi Chuan. :-)
Christian
christian@eTanguero.net
https://www.eTanguero.net/
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:28:12 -0500
From: Leonard Kunkel <image10@SWBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Question about: "The Intention"
This question has been asked of me. And at first I did not have a ready
answer but after reflection I have decided that intention is a
combination of at least two aspects.
To accomplish intention you have to have:
1. Frame, correct and solid connection. Intention comes from the upper
body but the parts of the upper body used may vary slightly according to
the physical attributes of the partners, and the style of tango and also
for the movement wishing to be accomplished. I believe the shoulders are
the common denominator. What ever part of the upper body be it arms,
chest, sternum, embrace that directs the signal it should be felt and
connected into the shoulders. A clear signal or communication must be
felt there.
2. Confidence - The leader needs to understand clearly where he wants to
place the follower and the experience with practice to know that his
lead will be understood. And then he must act without hesitation at the
right time in relation to the music. A leader cannot be tentative.
There is invariably a time for me during a milonga that occurs at least
once or maybe twice in the evening when I change my intention in the
middle of a movement. It causes a miscue from the follower and she
usually is quick to apologize thinking she was the one who made the
stumble. I always tell them "no it was me. I was in the process of
changing the signal, too late to be clear. It was my fault."
Intention must first be clear in the leader's mind (whether consciously
or subconsciously made) before it can be clear in the followers.
Intention is confidence with the technique to clearly communicate what
you desire.
Thanks,
LK
