483 Question : the music...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:35:00 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Question : the music...
...breaking the current silence...
While dancing, do you ever feel the music so strongly that you
can't continue?
If so, how do you manage?
Frank - Mpls.
--
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
frankw@mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience
(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE
(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
(612) 281-3860 (cellular/home)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:06:51 -0800
From: Ted Crowley <tcrowley@CISCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Question : the music...
Frank --
Do I have times when my pleasure in the music becomes so
strong that I "can't continue", or more accurately "don't want
to do anything except stand there and experience the joy the
music gives me right now". Yes, of course. I think most folk,
dancers or non-dancers, get brain-clobbered by the right
music at times.
I can get in the same situation, though less often, with my
pleasure in my partner: her beauty, or her grace, or our
perfect balanced connection, or an emotional closeness
we share, or simply holding her in my arms, or watching
her creativity when not so close, or a combination.
What do I do? As soon as I realize I'm about to stop leading
(or already have!) I force myself to take my attention away
from that joy enough to plan out our next movements, then
enough to actually lead them...then I do that again, and again
for the rest of the song. Perhaps I pause more often, to give
myself a second or two to just enjoy from time to time...
Would I rather just stand there and not lead, just fully appreciate
the joy? Sure. But in return for getting to dance with my delightful
partner, I offered to lead her for this song, so I do.
Anyway, it's a lot better than it used to be. Do you remember back
when you weren't so advanced a dancer? It used to take 100% of
my attention just to lead tango at all, with none left over to enjoy the
music or my partner or surroundings or anything else. No fun at all.
-- Ted
"Frank G. Williams" wrote:
> While dancing, do you ever feel the music so strongly that you
> can't continue?
>
> If so, how do you manage?
>
> Frank - Mpls.
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:56:17 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question : the music...
Frank raises a very interesting question:
>While dancing, do you ever feel the music so strongly that you
>can't continue?
>If so, how do you manage?
A good friend and I were once dancing to a tanda of Pugliese. The tanda
opened with La Yumba and continued with Gallo Ciego, Nochero Soy and La
Mariposa. By the time we were through dancing to Nochero Soy, both of us
seemed overwhelmed with intensity, and it seemed like we could not dance
any more.
We walked off the dance floor, which proved to be a poor decision. We
found ourselves shocked when others--completely oblivious to our
experience--engaged us us in conversation. Soon the intensity was broken,
and shortly thereafter, I was out on the dance floor with another woman to
finish out the tanda.
When I came off the dance floor at the end of La Mariposa, my friend said,
"I thought you were through dancing." I replied, "I thought you were
through dancing." In reality, at the moment that La Mariposa started
playing, neither of us could have danced. Next time, however, I will stay
out on the dance floor.
Abrazos,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:14:51 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question : the music...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Question : the music...
> ...breaking the current silence...
>
> While dancing, do you ever feel the music so strongly that you
> can't continue?
Sure, everytime the music sucks and does not match the dance I feel it so
strongly that I cannot continue.
> If so, how do you manage?
I stop trying to dance to it, leave the dance floor and try to avoid
attending dances DJ'd by that individual or committee ;-)
Manuel
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:37:35 EST
From: Robert Madrigal <LekkerP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question : the music...
In a message dated 3/27/02 11:18:08 AM Mountain Standard Time,
white95r@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
> I stop trying to dance to it, leave the dance floor and try to avoid
>
Manuel,
I had the same situation here, but decided to become a DJ and make a change.
Would that be a possibility for you?
But in answer to the original posting, as the music become strong I usually
continue, albeit somewhat slower, but usually a deep smile of pleasure is to
be seen on my face. Favorite number; La Tupungatina, Pugliese, 1952 has
brought the most smiles.
Robert
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:43:59 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Question : the music... and generic dancers
> I had the same situation here, but decided to become a DJ and make a
change.
> Would that be a possibility for you?
" I stop trying to dance to it, leave the dance floor and try to avoid......
;-)"
I was of course joking, I guess the emoticon at the end of the sentence was
not enough to convey the humor :-(
I dont leave the dance floor or stop dancing (unless the music stops for
some reason)., but I certainly am repelled off the dance floor by some
choices of music. I've been a tango DJ for quite a few years now and I know
what makes for good dancing. Yes, it is a good idea to be a DJ if one is not
happy with the music available. A caveat is in order however, to be very
sure that one knows one's music before one attempts to perpetrate it on
others.
I personally never find myself so overcome by the beauty of *danceable*
tango music that I cannot continue. Music is the very engine of the dance.
What better way to feel it and emote it than through the dance itself?
Unless of course one is like these "generic dancers" with "multiple steps"
discussed in another thread. Even a relatively new beginner can emote and
express himself through the dance as long as he or she has a modicum of
"vocabulary" of tango moves. The more skilled and experienced the dancer is,
the more ability he (or she, if she is allowed) can express himself or
herself through the dance.
Frankly, I also do not know what Steve Brown is trying to say. I cannot
fathom a definition of generic tango in a pejorative sense. I rather agree
with Frank when he says "I prefer to watch those who understand the *inner
beauty* of tango and let it shine through their movements. Their dance has
magnetism. It transmits feeling and personality. Regardless whether their
steps are simple or complicated, it is totally obvious when they 'feel the
tango'."
I think that there is a good bit of confusion in this topic. Some folks
appear to confuse just plain lack of talent with some sort of desire to show
off. And conversely, a simple yet beautiful dance with some sort of
minimalistic, anti-firulete style of dance. A talented dancer can dance in
any way he or she (if led by an equal) wants. Even including all manner of
firuletes, sacadas and even ganchos and saltos *and* still convey the beauty
and feeling of the tango. It is not about inner vs. outer focus. It's all
about musicality, talent and skill.
Generic (yeah, just good plain dancing) tangos to all,
Manuel
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:50:52 EST
From: Robert Madrigal <LekkerP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question : the music... and generic dancers
Manuel,
It seems I did miss the emoticon, but there have been times when the music
has been so bad it did constrict my improvisation. As for aspiring DJs I
would also recommend their traveling about and listen to the music played and
the mix used to stimulate a good milonga.
<<A talented dancer can dance in any way he or she (if led by an equal)
wants. Even including all manner of
firuletes, sacadas and even ganchos and saltos *and* still convey the beauty
and feeling of the tango. It is not about inner vs. outer focus. It's all
about musicality, talent and skill.>>
I agree, and I admire those that can do that in one square meter on a crowded
dance floor and still convey the inner beauty.
So possibly another topic along this same line is when does the inner beauty
transgress toward "vulgarity"?
Robert
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:02:53 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question : the music... and generic dancers
----- Original Message -----
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:27:09 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Question : the music... and generic dancers
>
> So possibly another topic along this same line is when does the inner
beauty
> transgress toward "vulgarity"?
>
> Robert
>
I wonder what you are trying to get at, Robert. The "inner beauty" comes
from the connection between the couple, and the connection to the music. Are
you trying to hint, that if that connection becomes too deep, it
"transgresses" easily into "vulgarity"? I dunno, Robert. There is only so
much you can do standing up and dancing... Also the concentration in tango
is another one than the one that happens after getting carried away by your
partner's simple close nondancing physical presence.
The only thing weird I ever witnessed in that sense on a dance floor was
when I went to one milonga in Berlin. There were chandeliers, polished
wooden floors, everyone was dancing, dressed in black silk shirts and so
on...And then there was this one couple in their thirties, in black leather
and designer jeans, who somehow had ended up on that floor, trying to join
in the "general mood" as they perceived it. They could not dance one bit,
not a clue about tango, but they stood there, trying to look all passionate
and extra sensuous, rubbing and rocking their bodies against each other in
"close embrace", her swinging her long blonde hair, and laughing in
exhilaration... The ronda moved carefully along and around them...
Astrid ; )
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:30:50 EST
From: Robert Madrigal <LekkerP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question : the music... and generic dancers
In a message dated 3/28/02 9:30:34 AM Mountain Standard Time,
astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP writes:
>
Astrid and Manuel,
We have described nicely the inner beauty and the intimacy which can be
achieved in all of one song; a harmonious movement of two as though both were
of one heart; however, my remark about vulgarity dealt with the opposite end
of the scale. At what point can that slide from something beautiful to
something less that appreciated.
Manuel aptly described some examples of rote execution of patterns
inappropriate to the music or dancing under the influence of drink.
Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen a couple pasted
together and hips swaying back and forth a la lambada, move nicely with the
music, however, it was not my cup of tea. I have seen very tight embraces, to
a leader's hand sliding down below the woman's waist. Embellishments?
I believe that point (or transgression) on the scale of "inner beauty" to
"vulgarity" lies somewhere with the connection between a dance couple. When
one breaks it and moves into their own world and in that moment of
disconnection anything is possible and most likely not desired.
Robert
