2517  refusals

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:05:38 -0700
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: refusals

--- Gary Barnes <garybarn@OZEMAIL.COM.AU> wrote:

> A year later, we may each make a different choice as
> to whether to ask, and whether to say yes.

I m interested in thinking about refusal and about
second chances after refusals.

If I ask a lady to dance and she refuses with an
explanation, I will ask a second time, another week.
If I ask a second time and she refuses, even with an
explanation, I will not ask again. If she refuses
without an explanation, I will not ask a second time.
I m not mad I just figure she doesn t want to dance
with me. (I admit, I m still mad at the lady who told
me she d rather sit and chat during the milonga tanda
I invited her to dance, and who then looked around and
found the partner she wanted after my other options
were already dancing so I missed out on the tanda
but that s neither here nor there.)

Now maybe this is easier for me emotionally than it is
for guys, because I ve got a readymade excuse for the
refusals. I know that some women prefer not to dance
with other women they are not comfortable embracing
another woman at all, they are not comfortable
embracing another woman with the closeness with which
they normally dance, they are specifically interested
in tango because it lets them embrace men.

But here s my question is there a length of time
after which it would be reasonable to ask again
(accepting the idea that she might still not care to
dance)? Is Gary s year a good guideline? Does she
mean, as Gary says, now/this tanda/tonight/until you
are a better dancer/ever ? And how do I know which
one unless I ask? If the lady didn t want to dance
with other women and that feeling has not changed,
she ll still say no and that s fine. If she didn t
like how I danced, maybe I will have improved (if not,
what am I taking lessons and practicing for?). If I
just had bad luck before and I asked twice when her
feet hurt extremely or when she was fighting with her
boyfriend over dancing with other people, or any of a
thousand other possibilities, maybe she would care to.

I know, though, that this is a very scary situation
for the leader, so how about solving it from the other
side? What about followers asking leaders to dance
whom they have previously refused? I know some
leaders on this list periodically indulge themselves
in elaborate fantasies (displayed to the reading
public in a very embarrassing fashion) about
humiliating the women who refused them. Some other
men say very reasonably that they would dance with
those women if they were asked, even if they
themselves didn t feel comfortable asking again.
Ladies have you asked leaders you previously
declined to dance with? Gentlemen how have you
responded to such requests?

I m interested in this possibility personally at the
moment. There is a guy I danced with several times
when he was newish. He was no worse than you d expect
of a beginner and I was willing to go on dancing with
him until the day he put his hands and legs where I
was sure they didn t belong. So I stopped dancing
with him didn t quarrel, went on airkissing and
chatting when we met, taking the same classes, etc.
etc. I just wasn t ever looking his way when he was
looking for a partner. I notice, though, that he has
stopped coming to the milongas fortified with alcohol
(which I suspected was the problem in the beginning).
When I see him dancing these days, the shenanigans
which irritated me do not seem to be present. And so
I m willing to dance with him again or at least try
it and see how we do. What do you think will I find
him to be reasonable or to be invested in some weird
desire for vengeance?

Marisa