2075 Reluctance to dance milonga.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:27:53 +1100
From: Tanguera Alegra <tanguers alegra@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:19:42 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
> From: Rick Mc Garrey
>
> *snip*
> Since I never dance milonga...
> *snip
>
> Rick,
> You're not the only man from whom I've heard this sentiment. I love to
dance milonga and frequently ask men to dance and get this reply.
>
> I'd be interested in the reasons you never dance it, and also the
perspective from other leaders who feel the same way.
>
Sorry, this is from a follower.
I have had the same experience, and I know that their reason for this is a
very simple one: they can't. Because the teacher they learned from does not
teach it. In my experience, those tango teachers who come from stage dance
and have a background of ballet, folklore, ballroom or some such, or who do
not come from Buenos Aires, often are unable to dance milonga.
Taking the risk of opening another bag of worms here, let me say, that this
is what I have seen and figured, so it may be a subjective view. But I have
also noticed, that those teachers here who much prefer to dance on stage or
in a studio, and do not attend milongas, often do not know how to dance
milonga (not the same as dancing "at a milonga", but it may go hand in hand
somehow, still)
Astrid
P.S.
It does take a while to get used to the milonga rhythm, as it is not the
same as in tango, even if my teacher thinks, that the milonga is the easiest
of all dances (I don't). It also comes (in part) with a different set of
moves, contrary to what some people seem to think.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:16:18 -0000
From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
I don't dance milonga either. As I see it, if you look at tango and milonga
from an emotional stance instead of the mechanics (steps, tempo, etc.), the
feelings involved are very different, if not opposite. Loss and longing are
of the essence to tango. This is all too clear also in the lyrics.
Alex
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:31:36 -0000
From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Gordon, I didn't say that I don't like milonga. I said that I don't dance
it. The music triggers the feeling, and the feeling inspires the dance.
Granted, milonga is very jolly but it doesn't trigger the feeling I'm after,
and in fact I'm always surprised that folks can dance tango and milongas
**back to back**.
When Pandora's box was open, sorrow, disease and hard labor was released
into the world. Only hope remained in the box, last refuge of mankind in the
face of all hardships.
In this day and age sadness is an stigmatised emotion --yet [IMO] it is also
the healing feeling. Tango welcomes it with open arms [and yes, pun
intended]. The best tango is danced grief-stricken. God knows there is so
much to let go of...
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:53:57 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Alex wrote about Pandora box and God knows what...
Alex,
One word: Prozac. The best tango is danced laced with sensuality (or promise
of the same), which could be (but does not have to be) quite sad, by the
way.
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://tangospring.com
>From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
>Reply-To: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:31:36 -0000
>
>Gordon, I didn't say that I don't like milonga. I said that I don't dance
>it. The music triggers the feeling, and the feeling inspires the dance.
>Granted, milonga is very jolly but it doesn't trigger the feeling I'm
>after,
>and in fact I'm always surprised that folks can dance tango and milongas
>**back to back**.
>
>When Pandora's box was open, sorrow, disease and hard labor was released
>into the world. Only hope remained in the box, last refuge of mankind in
>the
>face of all hardships.
>
>In this day and age sadness is an stigmatised emotion --yet [IMO] it is
>also
>the healing feeling. Tango welcomes it with open arms [and yes, pun
>intended]. The best tango is danced grief-stricken. God knows there is so
>much to let go of...
>
>Alex
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <gcessford@DOC.GOVT.NZ>
>To: <TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:51 PM
>Subject: [TANGO-L] Milonga and tango
>
>
> > Oh Wow!
> >
> > How can anyone who loves tango not love milonga! [Etc.]
>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:47:35 -0000
From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Oleh
Believe me, I have plenty with tango, I don't need Prozac for anything. By
the way, I mentioned sadness, not depression (i.e., the negation of
sadness).
Also, the sensuality stuff is very facile and cliche. 'Una monserga'. It
gives me a headache every time is mentioned, so maybe an aspirine for the
headache yes.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
> Alex wrote about Pandora box and God knows what...
>
> Alex,
> One word: Prozac. The best tango is danced laced with sensuality (or
promise
> of the same), which could be (but does not have to be) quite sad, by the
> way.
>
> Cheers, Oleh K.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:06:32 -0800
From: David Hodgson <DHodgson@TANGO777.COM>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Hey People, how about we all go for broke and jump deep into taking crack.
It has a better Wee-Haa effect, an incredibly piercing eye game that you
can play with your self and if the sadness is not there on your sleeve all
ready you ll be heading for a red-nightmare depression right smart. O'..the
humanity.
My thoughts for dancing Tango s, just be your self and let the rest take
care of it s self.
David~
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 4:48 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
Oleh
Believe me, I have plenty with tango, I don't need Prozac for anything. By
the way, I mentioned sadness, not depression (i.e., the negation of
sadness).
Also, the sensuality stuff is very facile and cliche. 'Una monserga'. It
gives me a headache every time is mentioned, so maybe an aspirine for the
headache yes.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
> Alex wrote about Pandora box and God knows what...
>
> Alex,
> One word: Prozac. The best tango is danced laced with sensuality (or
promise
> of the same), which could be (but does not have to be) quite sad, by the
> way.
>
> Cheers, Oleh K.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:07:13 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Alex,
Your sadness sounded quite depressing.
Strange as it might sound not everything what is cliche is wrong or trite
for that matter. Even if it makes me somewhat upset that thousands
(millions?) people discovered tango sensuality before me I enjoy it foremost
and nevertheless each time I encounter it with a new partner. Oops, have
another aspirin.
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://tangospring.com
>From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
>Reply-To: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:47:35 -0000
>
>Oleh
>
>Believe me, I have plenty with tango, I don't need Prozac for anything. By
>the way, I mentioned sadness, not depression (i.e., the negation of
>sadness).
>
>Also, the sensuality stuff is very facile and cliche. 'Una monserga'. It
>gives me a headache every time is mentioned, so maybe an aspirine for the
>headache yes.
>
>Alex
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Oleh Kovalchuke" <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: <TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:53 PM
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
>
>
> > Alex wrote about Pandora box and God knows what...
> >
> > Alex,
> > One word: Prozac. The best tango is danced laced with sensuality (or
>promise
> > of the same), which could be (but does not have to be) quite sad, by the
> > way.
> >
> > Cheers, Oleh K.
>
Cell phone switch rules are taking effect find out more here.
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:52:16 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Alex (alejandro.delmonte@ntlworld.com) writes:
> Gordon writes:
> > How can anyone who loves tango not love milonga! [Etc.]
>
> Gordon, I didn't say that I don't like milonga. I said that I don't dance
> it. [...]
>
> When Pandora's box was open, sorrow, disease and hard labor was released
> into the world. Only hope remained in the box, last refuge of mankind in the
> face of all hardships.
Uh, d00d, that's where milonga comes in, DUH!!
All sorrow, disease, and hard labor makes Jack a dull
boy. Why not allow yourself some of the hope as well?
> In this day and age sadness is a stigmatised emotion
Well you make a great point there. But let's not
go overboard in the opposite direction and wallow in
that one emotion to the point of forsaking all others.
> The best tango is danced grief-stricken.
Whoa. Maybe for you, but what makes you think
your personal experience extrapolates to everyone else?
I'll gladly countenance without judgment your dancing
while sobbing with tears streaming down your face during
the sadder tangos if you will allow me, without denigrating
it as somehow emotionally inferior, to dance mine with
a somewhat more restrained bittersweet and nostalgically
mild wistfullness.
Huck
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:07 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
Alex,
Your sadness sounded quite depressing.
Strange as it might sound not everything what is cliche is wrong or
trite for that matter. Even if it makes me somewhat upset that thousands
(millions?) people discovered tango sensuality before me I enjoy it
foremost and nevertheless each time I encounter it with a new partner.
Oops, have another aspirin.
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://tangospring.com
>From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
>Reply-To: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
>Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:47:35 -0000
>
>Oleh
>
>Believe me, I have plenty with tango, I don't need Prozac for anything.
>By the way, I mentioned sadness, not depression (i.e., the negation of
>sadness).
>
>Also, the sensuality stuff is very facile and cliche. 'Una monserga'.
>It gives me a headache every time is mentioned, so maybe an aspirine
>for the headache yes.
>
>Alex
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Oleh Kovalchuke" <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: <TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:53 PM
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Reluctance to dance milonga.
>
>
> > Alex wrote about Pandora box and God knows what...
> >
> > Alex,
> > One word: Prozac. The best tango is danced laced with sensuality (or
>promise
> > of the same), which could be (but does not have to be) quite sad, by
> > the way.
> >
> > Cheers, Oleh K.
> > ---
>
Cell phone switch rules are taking effect find out more here.
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:03:50 -0300
From: la guacha <lamasguacha@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Alex wrote:
"milonga is very jolly but it doesn't trigger the feeling I'm after,
and in fact I'm always surprised that folks can dance tango and milongas
**back to back**.
One's capacity for joy should be equal to one's capacity for sorrow. Why
not dance them back to back?!!
Alex also wrote "In this day and age sadness is an stigmatised emotion --yet
[IMO] it is also
the healing feeling. Tango welcomes it with open arms [and yes, pun
intended]. The best tango is danced grief-stricken. God knows there is so
much to let go of..."
It is not sadness, but ANGER, that is the healing feeling. The only way to
let go!
I think it could be an exciting emotion for tango - a highly charged boleo
or gancho every now and then really heats things up. And as far as the world
goes - it's the ONLY way to effect change. My favorite example of this - it
took a Malcolm X to back up a Martin Luther KIng! That's what finally
brought the Civil Rights bill to fruition.
my dos pesos
abrazos
la guacha
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:28:28 -0500
From: Rick McGarrey <RICKMCG@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Tanguera Alegra writes:
'I'd be interested in the reasons you never dance
(milonga), and also the perspective from other leaders
who feel the same way.'
Astrid writes:
'I know that their reason for this is a very simple
one: they can't.'
Yikes! In the post that started all this it seems
like I only said one correct thing: I said I will
probably regret this post. And now it looks like the
thread has evolved to the point where I have been
publicly outed as not knowing how to dance milonga.
Actually, I danced it for about three years. Maybe
not that well, but I was enjoying myself- until one
day someone suggested I try stepping in a different
way. I tried it for awhile and didn't like it, but
then when I went back to the old way, I was no longer
comfortable with that either. So now when my partner
tries to get me to dance milonga, I say I can't
because xxxx screwed it up for me. Also, I find that
if you dance all of the valses and most of the tangos,
milonga is a good time to rest.
I think in BsAs most people dance milonga, and many
think of it as a bit of a 'lighter' dance than tango
or vals. At the milongas where the best dancers go
they play about twice as many vals as milonga tandas.
The floor gets very crowded for the vals tandas, and
usually less crowded for the milonga tandas, so I
think it's fair to say milonga is third in popularity
behind tango and vals. There are some milongueros who
specialize in milonga. Guys like Cacho, Dany, El
Chino, and El Gallego (my favorite) take milonga to a
high level, and I would rather sit and watch them than
dance myself. A few people don't dance milonga at
all. I've never seen Tete dance milonga. He says, 'I
like milonga, but I just don't dance it much.'
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:10:08 +0100
From: Petra Starmans <petra.starmans@BEFREE.CH>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
Hi out there
Many interesting sentiments passed here. Don't say you should not have
put up this thread, Rick.. I enjoy it..
I would like to add some remarks I heard around me, by men leaders:
- it is so difficult to guide, these (bloody) women just keep running
away from me all the time, you cannot control them and they do not
listen to you anymore
- i don't like that hipswaying stuff, i feel ridiculous / feminine
(even gay!) which I do not want to feel like
- there are so many people around who dance it badly, i do not want to
be another one of those inaesthetic ones..
Maybe because of the above, maybe because of many of the things said
here before, I do feel like in my surroundings there are much more men
than women not liking milonga.
And the men who really like it have a tendency to become sort of
locomotive fanatics terrorizing the floor...
It takes much time to master the more upbeat energy into movements
which still translates into the floor and not only across... the
emotion is different, but danced in a playful way, with skill,
it can also be very connecting and not-shallow in my opinion.
Maybe for a woman, it feels like a little less 'patience' is required,
I feel it to be a bit less following and more acting (so the first
remark of the men leaders might be just right ;-) )
I like it a lot, the feeling connected between fun, exhilaration,
flirting and just emptying the brain by only being movement..
and yes, I still prefer tango, by the way ;-)
Petra
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:49:28 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Reluctance to dance milonga.
with skill,
> it can also be very connecting and not-shallow in my opinion.
>
> Maybe for a woman, it feels like a little less 'patience' is required,
> I feel it to be a bit less following and more acting (so the first
> remark of the men leaders might be just right ;-) )
>
In my experience, the embrace for milonga is usually closer than the one
required for tango, and the two dancers dance as "one body". That is, IMO,
one reason why it exposes who really knows how to dance tango, and is not
just "acting" on the floor. I wonder how you came to the conclusion that
milongas requires " a little less following"? Maybe the steps are a little
less complicated than in tango, but the connection in the upper body is a
total one, which, if the woman does "a little less following" becomes
impossible, and the ensuing dance would be quite out of character.
my two cents
Astrid
