5171 reply to Sergio: There is no such a thing as
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:02:34 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] reply to Sergio: There is no such a thing as
bad publicity.
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Sergio, amigo,
An amazing thing, that I get to be in the position of explaining Our culture to You. ;-)
The United States was founded by Puritans, and much of our culture, particularly mores and taboos related to sex, still to this day are often tainted with a residual of unconscious puritanical attitudes. The one that relates to this subject is that it's not "nice", especially for a woman, to confront, and it's doubly not nice, and is even shameful, to talk about sex. It's another order of magnitude of "not nice" to talk about sex abuses. The deplorable fact of child and spousal abuse in this country would be non-existent by now if not for this tendency, in both men and women, to "look the other way" rather than confront and say, "This is wrong." The empowerment that Feminism has brought most certainly made the situation better, but the reluctance of many women to speak out against such things is, as I said, an unconscious "feeling" that is just their automatic response based on generations of cultural indoctrination that started with the Puritans.
The Argentine culture, in contrast, seems to have no shortage of strong, vocal women who have no problem with speaking out.
J
> From: sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> To: tango-l@mit.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:19:37 +0000> Subject: [Tango-L] There is no such a thing as bad publicity.> > "Why didn't they just slap the guy and ask for their $$$> back? You'd be surprised how much women grit their teeth> and put up with on a daily basis, when survival or just> something they want badly is at stake."> > I find absurd that a woman will grit her teeth, continue taking lessons from > somebody that behaves like the teacher in question and then go and take him > to court.> > The tango community is small enough that talking these matters with other > members of the group will cause some of the organizers of events or some or > the managers of the milongas to have a talk with the teacher in > question...and women that do not like this type of 'training' not to take > lessons from him or even a more adult behavior, those women should have an > open discussion of the subject with the teacher himself or have t!
Capture your memories in an online journal!
https://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:55:09 -0500
From: Jeff Gaynor <jjg@jqhome.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] reply to Sergio: There is no such a thing as
bad publicity.
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Jay Rabe wrote:
> Sergio, amigo,
>
> An amazing thing, that I get to be in the position of explaining Our culture to You. ;-)
>
> The United States was founded by Puritans,
No it was not. One of the first colonies was up in Plymouth
Massachusetts. Almost from its inception the US had a heady mix of
cultures. Indeed, New York city had no less than 18 prominent languages
spoken in it during the mid 1700's and German missed out by a hair's
breadth of becoming the official language after the revolution.
> and much of our culture, particularly mores and taboos related to sex,
As with *all* cultures. Every culture regulates virtue, vice and
sexuality or it ceases to function as a society. We just obsess about
ours a lot more. You head to the Middle East and try to sleep with some
Arab's sister even if she does want it. Both of you will likely end up
dead.
> still to this day are often tainted with a residual of unconscious puritanical attitudes. The one that relates to this subject is that it's not "nice", especially for a woman, to confront, and it's doubly not nice, and is even shameful, to talk about sex. It's another order of magnitude of "not nice" to talk about sex abuses. The deplorable fact of child and spousal abuse in this country would be non-existent by now if not for this tendency, in both men and women, to "look the other way"
*NO* I teach women's self-defense and rape prevention. Sorry but this
statement crosses the line into irresponsible (which is why I ignored
this thread until now). Sex has nothing to do with assault and violence
and no amount of liberalizing attitudes towards sex will diminish such
crimes.
> rather than confront and say, "This is wrong." The empowerment that Feminism has brought most certainly made the situation better,
No it hasn't paradoxically. From the perspective of self-defense a
Feminist agenda tends to make victimization more likely that not. Often
there is a strong emphasis on tapping inner rage and abusing the
attacker rather than protecting the victim which can go horribly wrong.
But be warned this is (self-defense as an political statement) a really
big hot button for me so I suggest you not pen a casual reply.
> but the reluctance of many women to speak out against such things is, as I said, an unconscious "feeling" that is just their automatic response based on generations of cultural indoctrination that started with the Puritans.
>
No. This guy fits the bill as a potential date rapist pretty well in
that he knew his victims and chose them wisely. E,g,, even after
exposing himself at one point one victim was still not quite sure what
to do. What is probably more chilling to realize is that he operates
this way probably because he has been successful doing it in the past
and repeatedly so. This is the actual reason that so many incidents
passed without being reported, not a general helplessness of women. He
wouldn't have considered doing what he did for a minutes unless he
thought it was relatively safe. He just (fortunately) miscalculated this
time.
I am refraining from discussing this topic too much since it is large
and very, very disturbing, but a good place to start reading is at
https://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/rape.html
Jeff
