5660 Rhythm or Melody?
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:18:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To everybody,
A very basic question - should Tango be danced mostly to the rhythm or the melody?
Jack
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:39:52 +1000
From: Noughts <damian.thompson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Beginners - rhythm.
Pro - combination.
Sent from my iPhone, from somewhere...
On 10/06/2009, at 4:18 PM, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> To everybody,
>
> A very basic question - should Tango be danced mostly to the rhythm
> or the melody?
>
> Jack
>
>
>
>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
--- On Wed, 6/10/09, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> To everybody,
>
> A very basic question - should Tango be danced mostly to
> the rhythm or the melody?
>
> Jack
Both equally. One dances to the melody but steps on the beat. Beginners have trouble finding the rhythm and need to concentrate on that more. Have you ever noticed that if you put on a romantic ballad like that Turkish tango, even beginners don't have a problem dancing to both?
Trini de Pittsburgh
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:26:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
> From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) patangos@yahoo.com
?
> One dances to the melody but steps on the beat.? >
Thanks Trini, that's a great answer.
Jack
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:44:54 +0200
From: "Christian L?then" <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) patangos@yahoo.com
> ?
> One dances to the melody but steps on the beat.?
>
That's like the proof of a 'function' in maths:
- the beat is the necessary part.
- the melody makes that it's dancing.
[if someone could translate the german (maths) terms in english:
- beat = 'notwendige Bedingung'
- melody = 'hinreichende Bedingung']
A lot of the local dancers here in Rotterdam perform a lot of complicated steps with the music only in the background but not on/to the beat ...
... therefore it's not a 'function', em: 'dancing'.
Happy *dancing*!
Christian
.
--
GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter https://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:38:20 +0200
From: Andy Ungureanu <abungureanu@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Am 10.06.2009 19:26 schrieb Jack Dylan :
>> From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) patangos@yahoo.com
>>
>
>
>> One dances to the melody but steps on the beat. >
>>
>
> Thanks Trini, that's a great answer.
>
>
It's correct, but not that simple.
Someone who really knows (and can explain it) is:
https://www.joaquinamenabar.com.ar/baile.html
I can warmly recommend his musicality workshops for dancers.
Andy
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:24:01 +1000
From: Myk Dowling <politas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Andy Ungureanu wrote:
> It's correct, but not that simple.
> Someone who really knows (and can explain it) is:
> https://www.joaquinamenabar.com.ar/baile.html
>
> I can warmly recommend his musicality workshops for dancers.
I just did most of his workshops at the Sydney TangoFest, and have to
agree wholeheartedly. Joaquin's system for explaining tango rhythms is
absolutely excellent. Well worth the price of the Book/DVD, too.
And I have to say, watching him dance to a tune that he knows is just
magical.
Myk,
in Canberra
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:51:38 -0700
From: "Peter Esser" <peterwesser@oregonducks.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To: <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
[if someone could translate the german (maths) terms in english:
...the translation from philosophy talk (don't know about math):
>- beat = 'notwendige Bedingung'
"necessary condition"
>- melody = 'hinreichende Bedingung']
"sufficient condition"
--Peter
<-----Original Message----->
>From: \ [christian.luethen@gmx.net]
>Sent: 6/10/2009 2:46:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
>
>-------- Original-Nachricht --------
>> From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) patangos@yahoo.com
>>
>> One dances to the melody but steps on the beat.
>>
>
>That's like the proof of a 'function' in maths:
>- the beat is the necessary part.
>- the melody makes that it's dancing.
>
>[if someone could translate the german (maths) terms in english:
>- beat = 'notwendige Bedingung'
>- melody = 'hinreichende Bedingung']
>
>
>A lot of the local dancers here in Rotterdam perform a lot of
complicated steps with the music only in the
>background but not on/to the beat ...
>.... therefore it's not a 'function', em: 'dancing'.
>
>
>
>Happy *dancing*!
>
>Christian
>
>
>..
>--
>GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>Jetzt freischalten unter https://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>.
>
>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:04:33 +0200
From: "Christian L?then" <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
Also in maths, Peter!
A mathematician has contacted me off-list (but I did not have the time to post it myself in the meantime).
Interesting enough: that mathematician is *not* on the list but stumble upon my posting through some other google-search! How fast is google up-to-date on those mailing lists? Spooky! =;-o
I wish you all happy dances which meet both the necessary as well the sufficient conditions!
Christian
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:51:38 -0700
> Von: "Peter Esser" <peterwesser@oregonducks.org>
> An: christian.luethen@gmx.net
> Betreff: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
> [if someone could translate the german (maths) terms in english:
>
> ...the translation from philosophy talk (don't know about math):
>
> >- beat = 'notwendige Bedingung'
> "necessary condition"
> >- melody = 'hinreichende Bedingung']
> "sufficient condition"
>
> --Peter
>
>
> <-----Original Message----->
> >From: \ [christian.luethen@gmx.net]
> >Sent: 6/10/2009 2:46:54 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
> >
> >-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> >> From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) patangos@yahoo.com
> >>
> >> One dances to the melody but steps on the beat.
> >>
> >
> >That's like the proof of a 'function' in maths:
> >- the beat is the necessary part.
> >- the melody makes that it's dancing.
> >
> >[if someone could translate the german (maths) terms in english:
> >- beat = 'notwendige Bedingung'
> >- melody = 'hinreichende Bedingung']
> >
> >
> >A lot of the local dancers here in Rotterdam perform a lot of
> complicated steps with the music only in the
> >background but not on/to the beat ...
> >.... therefore it's not a 'function', em: 'dancing'.
> >
> >
> >
> >Happy *dancing*!
> >
> >Christian
> >
> >
> >..
> >--
> >GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> >Jetzt freischalten unter https://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
> >.
> >
> >
--
christian.luethen@gmx.net
How inappropriate to call this planet earth ...
... as clearly it is ocean!
GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss
f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* https://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:58:11 +1000
From: Noughts <damian.thompson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To: Christian L?then <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cb8208d0906101658w293c96a0o902be0e48ba1031b@mail.gmail.com>
Dancing on the beat is definitely a beginning place.... hence why I
say beginners.
Obviously as you become more skilled, you can dance to both more
levels and more instruments and specific instruments have specific
actions..... ?Joaquin Amenabar will also confirm this. This is also
taught by Naveira, Arce, Chicho, Gonzalez and really, any teacher that
understands the music and what happens with each instrument - not
forgetting the voice.
Dancing to vocals is one of the most enjoyable aspects of tango and
takes a great deal of skill. Understanding them, even better ;-)
Often, you will have the leader dancing the beat, the follower the
melody, but just as often it is reversed (watch Arce Montes for this
especially in Milonga Criolle - recent youtube posting - sorry, no
link... at work). Sometimes dance the piano, othertimes, the violin
and most consistently, of course, the bandoneon.
Enjoy your dancing
Damian
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:43:17 +1000
From: Geoff Walker <geoffww@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I too can recommend his book + DVD, but unfortunately it seems that it
is now sold out, at least temporarily :
https://www.joaquinamenabar.com/
Geoff Walker
Sydney
Myk Dowling wrote :
Andy Ungureanu wrote:
> It's correct, but not that simple.
> Someone who really knows (and can explain it) is:
> https://www.joaquinamenabar.com.ar/baile.html
>
> I can warmly recommend his musicality workshops for dancers.
I just did most of his workshops at the Sydney TangoFest, and have to
agree wholeheartedly. Joaquin's system for explaining tango rhythms is
absolutely excellent. Well worth the price of the Book/DVD, too.
And I have to say, watching him dance to a tune that he knows is just
magical.
Myk,
in Canberra
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
--- On Wed, 6/10/09, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ?
> > One dances to the melody but steps on the beat.?
> >
>
> Thanks Trini, that's a great answer.
>
> Jack
>
A friend of mine shared that gem with me after he attended workshops with Miguel Zotto (I think) years ago. Wish I had been a tango gypsy then.
Trini de Pittsburgh
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:13:06 -0400
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Rhythm or Melody?
To: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>, Tango List <tango-l@mit.edu>
If you are a follow, this depends on the skills of the leader, and what's
appropriate for the music.
The orthodox answer would be to say that the feet should always be in rhythm,
but the lead should be choosing to fit figures to the phrases of melody. That
requires a medium to high understanding of music and medium to high level of
expressing musicality. Beginning leads should stick to the basics.
Rhythm dancing is definitely suggested by certain orchestras with certain songs
with a pronounced habanera. Other orchestras and tangos are more lyrical and
the rhythm backbone is light to nonexistent in some places. Heavy rhythm can be
kind of draconian. Not fun to do traspies and nothing more all the way down the
side of a long ballroom.
I have had tangos where the lead syncopates the feet, drops steps, or dances
more slowly than the beat for a phrase or two, then picks the rhythm back up.
If he communicates it, I can do it. Those dances, are they 'rhythmic'? They
are fantastic. With other leads trying this, it's a disaster.
In open frame dance forms, such as lindy and salsa, I myself can choose whether
to dance to the saxophone as opposed to the drums, but only with a partner who
understands what I'm doing and is confident I will be in the right place on 1.
In tango, I'm pretty much dependent on the skills of the leader to choose
whether I dance to rhythm or the phrase.
Jack Dylan wrote:
> To everybody,
>
> A very basic question - should Tango be danced mostly to the rhythm or the melody?
>
> Jack
>
>
>
>
>
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd, Esq.
VP/General Counsel Loud Feed, Inc. | https://loudfeed.com
Principal, Arborlaw PLC | https://arborlaw.biz
734.717.4646 v 734.786.1241 f
