5432  rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:32:29 -0500
From: "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Subject: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
To: <crrtango@aol.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<DDA0C1BA83D32D45ACB965BA82FD81C7021529BE@LAWMNEXV2.LAW.LOCAL>

maybe not ... seem to remember either Jack lemmon or his partner with
the rose in mouth in Some Like It Hot, which being within the viewing
lifetimes of more dancers today than Four Forsemen, probably reinforced
the image. what im curious about is the genesis of the silly head snap
the public seems to associate with tango...

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:42:30 -0600
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
To: "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<cff24c340801090942l7b7b7bfcg67480bb72ef070d8@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/08, Nussbaum, Martin <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov> wrote:

> maybe not ... seem to remember either Jack lemmon or his partner with
> the rose in mouth in Some Like It Hot, which being within the viewing
> lifetimes of more dancers today than Four Forsemen, probably reinforced
> the image. what im curious about is the genesis of the silly head snap
> the public seems to associate with tango...

International ballroom tango

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:55:24 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>

And don't forget Gomez doing tango with a rose in his teeth in the Adam's Family. :-)

> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:42:30 -0600
> From: tango.society@gmail.com
> To: mnussbau@law.nyc.gov
> CC: tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
>
> On 1/9/08, Nussbaum, Martin <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov> wrote:
> > maybe not ... seem to remember either Jack lemmon or his partner with
> > the rose in mouth in Some Like It Hot, which being within the viewing
> > lifetimes of more dancers today than Four Forsemen, probably reinforced
> > the image. what im curious about is the genesis of the silly head snap
> > the public seems to associate with tango...
>
> International ballroom tango

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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 07:32:39 -1200
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
To: Tango-L@Mit.Edu, "Nussbaum,Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net

Martin wrote:

> what im curious about is the genesis of the silly head

snap the

> public seems to associate with tango...

The "silly head snap" is part of International style tango.
This style is used in competitive ballroom competitions. The
social tango style, sometimes called American, doesn't have
any head snaps. In the competitive style, the couples aren't
allowed to separate but they can in American.

I'm guessing the snap is used to impress judges. I don't
dance International style because I don't want to give
myself whiplash.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Where it feels like Spring today. Tomorrow is a different
story

I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:09:58 -0600
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
To: Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<cff24c340801091409u3bdd0050q359a9b57b66fb50@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/08, Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net> wrote:

> Martin wrote:
> > what im curious about is the genesis of the silly head
> snap the
> > public seems to associate with tango...
> The "silly head snap" is part of International style tango.
> This style is used in competitive ballroom competitions. The
> social tango style, sometimes called American, doesn't have
> any head snaps. In the competitive style, the couples aren't
> allowed to separate but they can in American.

>>From a (mostly former) ballroom dancer:

International ballroom dance can be used for social dancing, as it is
throughout most of the world outside North America (and sometimes even
in the US & Canada)

American ballroom dance (read "Fred Astaire" & "Arthur Murray"
schools) can be competitive. As far as I know, American ballroom dance
is rare, if not completely absent outside North America.

It is true that there is less American ballroom dance competition and
more of an emphasis on social dancing than in International ballroom
dance, with International Ballroom often (I believe predominantly)
used for competition in the US, but both ballroom styles are used for
both social and competititive dance.

Ron

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:54:50 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
To: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>, <Tango-L@Mit.Edu>,
"Nussbaum,Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net


What you call "the silly headsnap" also exists in flamenco, one of the roots
of tango.
And Rudolfo Valentino lived long before there were any ballroom competitions
with judges.

> Martin wrote:
>> what im curious about is the genesis of the silly head
> snap the
>> public seems to associate with tango...
> The "silly head snap" is part of International style tango.
> This style is used in competitive ballroom competitions. The
> social tango style, sometimes called American, doesn't have
> any head snaps. In the competitive style, the couples aren't
> allowed to separate but they can in American.
>
> I'm guessing the snap is used to impress judges. I don't
> dance International style because I don't want to give
> myself whiplash.
>
> Michael Ditkoff
> Washington, DC
> Where it feels like Spring today. Tomorrow is a different
> story
>
> I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
>

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:21:42 -0500
From: Anne Adams <atlanna@gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Michael wrote:

> The "silly head snap" is part of International style tango.
> This style is used in competitive ballroom competitions. The
> social tango style, sometimes called American, doesn't have
> any head snaps. In the competitive style, the couples aren't
> allowed to separate but they can in American.
>
> I'm guessing the snap is used to impress judges. I don't
> dance International style because I don't want to give
> myself whiplash.

The 'head snap' is a result of the leader suddenly changing direction.
It's not an isolated head movement, but actually more a side-product
due to the leader-initiated change in the follower's body position ...
in some respects like a boleo of the head ;)

From the leader's perspective it requires skill and the right timing
to make it happen, and works better when the follower is relaxed.
If I remember correctly it's a slightly circular motion, and in my
experience not as whiplashy as it appears :)

I suppose it can be (or is) also done by the follower for
embellishmental purposes, but I cannot speak to that..

~Anne

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:48:17 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643C69@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>



Is it a snap or a dip? My recollection of these sorts of stylised performances is that they have dips in them but I don't recall a snap and I have not got youtube here to check. Head snaps in flamenco? I have never done a flamenco lesson as such, but it's the national dance of half my family, so I have been exposed to a fair bit of it over the years. I recall a lot of clapping, castanets, hand twisting, lifting of skirts, stamping of feet and men twisting at their waist, but nothing like a head snap. I don't know what sort of flamenco has head snaps in it, but I don't think it is the sort danced by ordinary people in Spain. No doubt someone will set me straight by sending me a youtube clip ;-).

Victor Bennetts

Astrid >What you call "the silly headsnap" also exists in flamenco, one of >the roots of tango.

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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:17:46 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] rose in mouth, singlehandedly from one film?

I don't know what sort of flamenco has head snaps in it, but I don't think
it is the sort danced by ordinary people in Spain. No doubt someone will set
me straight by sending me a youtube clip ;-).

>
> Victor Bennetts
>
> Astrid >What you call "the silly headsnap" also exists in flamenco, one of
> >the roots of tango.

How about here, at about 1.38min :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxN0HSWzx3E
(in case you have forgotten what we were talking about and are wondering why
I post this: relations between flamenco and tango, and what "silly head
snaps" have to do with both)

>