4659 Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:29:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires
To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
Caroline,
In defence of old age one may say that those elderly dancers, who bored you to death, listen and dance THE music and the spirit of the lyrics ( for they don't have to really listen to words know by heart.) To do that one does not need many steps. And if you'll get lucky, one of these geezers will whisper words of lost love in your ear while dancing....
Lucia
PS Unless of course you prefer the athletics :->
Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> escribi?: Not to put down Lo De Celia but I was there recently. I am sure the
milongueros were very good 5 or 10 years ago but they are now in their
seventies, perhaps eighties and as such, showing the effects of their age.
There were very very few men younger than that at that milonga. It seems a
friendly space to be sure, and the people congenial but I did find myself
getting a bit bored doing the same six steps over and over again with men
too old to bend their arthritic or rheumatic joints. I found myself wanting
to dance only with men in their sixties or younger because they are young
enough to dance without being hampered or stiffened by age.
I know Janis likes to say that the only real tango is the milonguero style
but honestly, tango is not restricted to just six steps or to men who are
beginning to be quite limited physically because of their age. Milongueros
of times past are now getting very old and as such, are no longer able to
put as much into dancing as they could once. Would have liked to be here ten
years ago and see what they were like then. What?s very important to
remember is that milonguero style evolved from two things: lack of space of
milongas and age. If Argentine Tango is only about doing six steps in total,
it would not have been as popular as it is now. I?ve heard that at practicas
where there is much more space, that there is more variety in tango steps.
And when I look at movies of tango of even only 20 years ago, I?m seeing far
more variety of Argentine social tango that I see now.
I hope that when I?m in my seventies and eighties, that I will still be
going out dancing like the men at Lo de Celia or at Salon La Argentina but I
wouldn?t expect the younger generation to be saying that only people of my
age can dance the tango well for I would be too old to be able to do what I
could once. Not even the world's best dancers of any dance style will be
able to dance as well as they did once, it?s not possible. Instead, what we
could hope for is that milongueros will pass down to the younger generations
the beautiful feeling of a good embrace and expressive musicality and hope
that the tango of times past will continue to be the tango of times to come.
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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:02:24 -0600
From: "Gibson Batch" <gibsonbatch@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires
To: TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
Dear Listos,
I wrote this little bit after a Tango-L thread about milonguero from Janice
and others several months ago. I was waiting for the right moment to share
it with you all....and with these last few postings, I feel its time has
come.
What is it about tango that has such a lifelong appeal to us all?
This is 'only' my 5th year of dancing tango, but I enjoy it as much as ever.
None of my other 15-or-so hobbies or interests have lasted half this long.
Gibson
Minneapolis
Milonguero
Gibson Batch
The man can barely walk-
Knees shake, hips weak-
But he can dance.
He dances with the beautiful women,
The young and old,
With strangers and
Friends of decades.
He dances the tango with warmth,
With awe a child,
And mastery of a pianist,
With humility and posture,
Gentleness and constancy.
Taking quiet satisfaction
>>From the misty-eyed smile
Of his dancing companion,
He escorts her to her chair,
Then picking up his cane
And his hat,
He leaves.
There is no greater way to live.
There is no greater way to die.
Milongero
The man can barely walk-
Knees shake, hips weak-
But he can dance.
He dances with the beautiful women,
The young and old,
With strangers and
Friends of decades.
He dances the tango with warmth,
With awe a child,
And mastery of a pianist,
With humility and posture,
Gentleness and constancy.
Taking quiet satisfaction
>>From the misty-eyed smile
Of his dancing companion,
He escorts her to her chair,
Then picking up his cane
And his hat,
He leaves.
There is no greater way to live.
There is no greater way to die.
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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:46:12 -0500
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires
To: curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar, tango-l@mit.edu
Hi Lucia,
don:t put words in my mouth that i never said. i said i was a BIT bored, not
bored to death.
I do love dancing with many older gentlemen and I love how expressive they
are. Just read the post I wrote last week.
I was speaking specifically of men now in their 704s and 804s who can barely
move due to being handicapped by aging joints. They are getting even too old
to be able to express physically what they are feeling musically. That was
all I said.
Just as I love dancing with men in their fifties, forties, thirties and
twenties. They all have something to bring to the floor. To say that only
milongueros know how to dance tango properly is getting a bit stale and
outdated and probably offensive to all argentine dancers who are not older
than 70. To say such a thing means completley eliminating all the younger
generations who had learned from those milongueros. That is the kind of
blanket statement that I am not appreciative of, it:s like saying all black
men and only black men can play basketball. It:s bullshit and it:s
narrowminded and it's offensive. I've danced with some milongueros who
couldn:t dance worth a damn and their technique was lacking even if they
feel moved by the music.
I:ve danced with some indigenous dancers in their twenties who were
incredible and dancing with them made me feel as though I were flying, not
at high speed but coasting through the skies, dipping here and there. It was
so much fun and not to be confused at all with nuevo tango.
Why does one must always associate youth with athletics and acrobatics?
That:s not true at all. yes, some do like being more athletic and some like
good old fashioned social tango. Some of the younger men made me think of
how milongueros must have been like back in the day when they were young
enough to do more than what they are physically capable of doing now.
Next time, please read what I actually said before jumping to conclusions
about what I never said at all.
Caroline
Secondly,
----Original Message Follows----
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:17:16 -0700
From: Nina Pesochinsky <nina@earthnet.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires
To: TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
Hi, Lucia, Caroline, and everyone on the list,
I think that both of you are correct with your
assessment of the multi-faceted phenomena of tango.
Something has occurred to me as I was reading
these posts. I suddenly understood, once again,
how brutal we women are. We get on a public list
of a 1000 people or so, such as this one, and
begin to dissect in abstraction the dance
experiences that we have in regard to the AGES OF MEN that we dance with!!!
If the men did that, we would have been mortally
wounded! Just imagine what would happen if some
men wrote on this list: "I like dancing with the
ladies in their 50s and 60s, but sometimes it is
boring. They have arthritis and can't move as
well as they did when they were younger."?! I am
sure that vivid pictures are passing through your
minds right now about the possible consequences...
Gentlemen, you are real gentlemen because we have
never heard such things from you. It just
proves that one should never expect gentlemanly behavior from the women!
On another note, dance and dancers have a lot to
offer. Men and women who cannot move because of
their age are still able to embrace their
partners. Whjo cares about the age?! You can
just stand there to the music in a gorgeous
embrace, if nothing else is possible.
On the other hand, if embrace 'like you mean it"
is not possible, then there better be some nice
moves, conversation, something... There needs to
be something (no tongues in ears, please). If
there is nothing, then reading a book might be the a much better thing to do.
Basically, we don't dance with abstract
partners. These are people, unique and very
different from each other. Their skills and
limitations are both a part of the experience and
we choose to share that experience with them voluntarily.
I propose that we choose people as the most
important part of the experience, and not
sacrifice them to what we have in our heads as a "good' dance experience.
Warmest regards to all,
Nina
At 04:46 PM 11/20/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Lucia,
>
>don?t put words in my mouth that i never said. i
>said i was a BIT bored, not bored to death.
>
>I do love dancing with many older gentlemen and
>I love how expressive they are. Just read the post I wrote last week.
>
>I was speaking specifically of men now in their
>70?s and 80?s who can barely move due to being
>handicapped by aging joints. They are getting
>even too old to be able to express physically
>what they are feeling musically. That was all I said.
>
>Just as I love dancing with men in their
>fifties, forties, thirties and twenties. They
>all have something to bring to the floor. To say
>that only milongueros know how to dance tango
>properly is getting a bit stale and outdated and
>probably offensive to all argentine dancers who
>are not older than 70. To say such a thing means
>completley eliminating all the younger
>generations who had learned from those
>milongueros. That is the kind of blanket
>statement that I am not appreciative of, it?s
>like saying all black men and only black men can
>play basketball. It?s bullshit and it?s
>narrowminded and it's offensive. I've danced
>with some milongueros who couldn?t dance worth a
>damn and their technique was lacking even if they feel moved by the music.
>
>I?ve danced with some indigenous dancers in
>their twenties who were incredible and dancing
>with them made me feel as though I were flying,
>not at high speed but coasting through the
>skies, dipping here and there. It was so much
>fun and not to be confused at all with nuevo tango.
>Why does one must always associate youth with
>athletics and acrobatics? That?s not true at
>all. yes, some do like being more athletic and
>some like good old fashioned social tango. Some
>of the younger men made me think of how
>milongueros must have been like back in the day
>when they were young enough to do more than what
>they are physically capable of doing now.
>
>Next time, please read what I actually said
>before jumping to conclusions about what I never said at all.
>
>Caroline
>
>
>
>Secondly,
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
>To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires
>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:29:40 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Caroline,
>
> In defence of old age one may say that those elderly dancers, who bored
>you to death, listen and dance THE music and
>the spirit of the lyrics ( for they don't have
>to really listen to words know by heart.) To do that
>one does not need many steps. And if you'll get
>lucky, one of these geezers will whisper words
>of lost love in your ear while dancing....
>
> Lucia
>
> PS Unless of course you prefer the athletics :->
>
>Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
>escribi?: Not to put down Lo De Celia but I was there recently. I am sure the
>milongueros were very good 5 or 10 years ago but they are now in their
>seventies, perhaps eighties and as such, showing the effects of their age.
>There were very very few men younger than that at that milonga. It seems a
>friendly space to be sure, and the people congenial but I did find myself
>getting a bit bored doing the same six steps over and over again with men
>too old to bend their arthritic or rheumatic joints. I found myself wanting
>to dance only with men in their sixties or younger because they are young
>enough to dance without being hampered or stiffened by age.
>
>I know Janis likes to say that the only real tango is the milonguero style
>but honestly, tango is not restricted to just six steps or to men who are
>beginning to be quite limited physically because of their age. Milongueros
>of times past are now getting very old and as such, are no longer able to
>put as much into dancing as they could once. Would have liked to be here ten
>years ago and see what they were like then. What?s very important to
>remember is that milonguero style evolved from two things: lack of space of
>milongas and age. If Argentine Tango is only about doing six steps in total,
>it would not have been as popular as it is now. I?ve heard that at practicas
>where there is much more space, that there is more variety in tango steps.
>And when I look at movies of tango of even only 20 years ago, I?m seeing far
>more variety of Argentine social tango that I see now.
>
>I hope that when I?m in my seventies and eighties, that I will still be
>going out dancing like the men at Lo de Celia or at Salon La Argentina but I
>wouldn?t expect the younger generation to be saying that only people of my
>age can dance the tango well for I would be too old to be able to do what I
>could once. Not even the world's best dancers of any dance style will be
>able to dance as well as they did once, it?s not possible. Instead, what we
>could hope for is that milongueros will pass down to the younger generations
>the beautiful feeling of a good embrace and expressive musicality and hope
>that the tango of times past will continue to be the tango of times to come.
>
>Ready for the world's first international mobile film festival celebrating
>the creative potential of today's youth? Check out Mobile Jam Fest for your
>a chance to WIN $10,000! www.mobilejamfest.com
>
>
>
>Correo Yahoo!
>Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ?gratis!
>
>Say hello to the next generation of Search. Live
>Search ? try it now. https://www.live.com/?mkt=en-ca
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:37:06 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Smoking section at a milonga in Buenos Aires -- an
update on Lo de Celia
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
Shortly after writing about a smoking section at Lo de Celia, the situation
changed. It seems that four city inspectors showed up one night to
investigate. It's possible that someone complained about the smoking policy
in her club since all other milongas are nonsmoking. Celia Blanco has
decided to play it safe and not allow smoking during any of her milongas
until she has it in writing that she is allowed to have a smoking section.
Those who want to smoke go have to go out on the balcony or to the street.
The foreign invasion has been evident at Celia's where I've met dancers from
Italy, Sweden, Norway, and the US in the past last week. A 35-year-old
woman from Torino, Italy told me that she prefers dancing at Celia's even
though no one is close to her age.
