5165 Switching roles
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:42:46 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Switching roles
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around talking.
One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the world
where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number of
men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to your
leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
Minneapolis, MN
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:25:06 +0000
From: rockies@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
<091120071725.5558.46E6CF71000DB160000015B622092246270101009B9D@comcast.net>
-------------- Original message ----------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:58:49 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles? I can only recall
La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
Keith, HK
On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around talking.
>One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
>switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the world
>where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
>milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
>
>We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number of
>men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to your
>leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
>
>Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
>Minneapolis, MN
>
>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:31:33 -0700
From: "Tango Tango" <tangotangotango@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
<9fb1555a0709111631l4eb2f794ge014fe5981894fe1@mail.gmail.com>
Hi everyone.
I forgot the Spanish words for 'leader' and 'follower'. What are they again?
Neil
On 9/11/07, Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
>
> Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles? I can only
> recall
> La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
>
> Keith, HK
>
> On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>
> >After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around
> talking.
> >One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
> >switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the
> world
> >where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
> >milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
> >
> >We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number
> of
> >men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to
> your
> >leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
> >
> >Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
> >Minneapolis, MN
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Melinda Kausek <melindakausek@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
Last time I checked it was "hombre" and "mujer" or "el rol masculino" and "el rol feminino."
However, the verb for "lead" is usually "marcar" (mark) or "llevar" (take). Literally translated that would be something like: 'the leader marks the step,' or 'the man takes the woman to the cross.' The verb for follow is "seguir" and it can literally be translated to "follow" in English.
Melinda
Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote: Hi everyone.
I forgot the Spanish words for 'leader' and 'follower'. What are they again?
Neil
On 9/11/07, Keith wrote:
>
> Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles? I can only
> recall
> La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
>
> Keith, HK
>
> On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>
> >After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around
> talking.
> >One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
> >switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the
> world
> >where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
> >milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
> >
> >We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number
> of
> >men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to
> your
> >leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
> >
> >Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
> >Minneapolis, MN
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:28:28 -0300
From: "Madreselva Zapatos" <info@madreselvazapatos.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
Neil
a leader is someone who sets a role model LIDER and a follower that you can
follow or follwos a leader SEGUIDOR
regards from ARGENTINA,
Natalia Laguzzi
MADRESELVA SHOES
Venezuela 3502
Buenos Aires CP 1220
Phone: 005411 4958 1645
Cel Phone: 0054 9 11 6640 9787
info@madreselvazapatos.com.ar
www.madreselvazapatos.com.ar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tango Tango" <tangotangotango@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
> Hi everyone.
>
> I forgot the Spanish words for 'leader' and 'follower'. What are they
> again?
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> On 9/11/07, Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
>>
>> Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles? I can only
>> recall
>> La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
>>
>> Keith, HK
>>
>> On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>>
>> >After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around
>> talking.
>> >One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
>> >switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the
>> world
>> >where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
>> >milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
>> >
>> >We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the
>> >number
>> of
>> >men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to
>> your
>> >leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
>> >
>> >Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
>> >Minneapolis, MN
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:38:51 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:58:49 -0400, "Keith" <keith@tangohk.com> said:
> Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles?
> I can only recall La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
Try the tourist milongas.
I've seen a gay gouple dancing at the Ideal. The follower in
particular had clean, excellent technique.
I suspect there wouldn't be more than raised eyebrows at venues
like Porten~o y Bailarin.
I know. Now there will be a hue and cry about how tourists are
contaminating BA with their impure ways.
Christopher
> Keith, HK
>
> On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>
> >After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around talking.
> >One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
> >switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the world
> >where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
> >milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
> >
> >We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number of
> >men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to your
> >leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
> >
> >Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
> >Minneapolis, MN
> >
> >
>
>
>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:45:00 EDT
From: MACFroggy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
Sometimes near the end of the milonga (Buenos Aires), Ruben and I exchange
roles without stopping while dancing, and then switch back. We only go to
conservative milongas and everyone knows us, but still, sometimes people look at us
in shock.
Cherie
https://tangocherie.blogspot.com/
See what's new at https://www.aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:12:55 -0400
From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
To: MACFroggy@aol.com
Cc: keith@tangohk.com, ceverett@ceverett.com, tango-l@mit.edu
I've seen Tete often switching leads with his followers (as below) at
some of the major milongas .
I've occassionally seen women leading women, even tho it is frowned
upon, at the end of milongas ... (seems to me the reaction also
depended on how good the woman leader was !!!)
Ilene
MACFroggy@aol.com wrote:
>Sometimes near the end of the milonga (Buenos Aires), Ruben and I exchange
>roles without stopping while dancing, and then switch back. We only go to
>conservative milongas and everyone knows us, but still, sometimes people look at us
>in shock.
>
>
>Cherie
>
>https://tangocherie.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> See what's new at https://www.aol.com
>
>
>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:15:29 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
Although the milongas in BsAs are called "gay milongas", the majority of
people who go there are not gay. They are mostly young, they are all kinds
of people, foreigners and porteno's, and women are just as likely to lead
men as men lead men or women lead women.
I saw a lovely performance once at Club Espanol by an older couple.
Somewhere in the middle, almost imperceptibly, they changed roles. A little
later they changed back again. It was beautiful, and the crowd loved it.
Loisa
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
> Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles? I can only
> recall
> La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
>
> Keith, HK
>
> On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>
>>After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around
>>talking.
>>One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
>>switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the
>>world
>>where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
>>milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
>>
>>We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number
>>of
>>men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to
>>your
>>leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
>>
>>Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
>>Minneapolis, MN
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:34:19 -0300
From: Robin Tara <rtara@maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
To: Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net>, Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Have you noticed that many people who "switch roles", especially Argentinos,
don't actually switch lead and follow. The man is still leading but doing
followers steps and leading the leader's steps.
It's the same thing that makes many men difficult to lead. They seem to
think they need to "know and do" the followers steps, rather than being lead
to do them.
Best regards,
Robin
Tara Design, Inc.
www.taratangoshoes.com
Toll Free in US: 1-877-906-8272
18 Stillman St.
So. Portland ME 04106
207-741-2992--
> From: Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net>
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:15:29 -0500
> To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
>
> Although the milongas in BsAs are called "gay milongas", the majority of
> people who go there are not gay. They are mostly young, they are all kinds
> of people, foreigners and porteno's, and women are just as likely to lead
> men as men lead men or women lead women.
>
> I saw a lovely performance once at Club Espanol by an older couple.
> Somewhere in the middle, almost imperceptibly, they changed roles. A little
> later they changed back again. It was beautiful, and the crowd loved it.
>
> Loisa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith" <keith@tangohk.com>
> To: "Tango-L" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
>
>
>> Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles? I can only
>> recall
>> La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
>>
>> Keith, HK
>>
>> On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>>
>>> After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around
>>> talking.
>>> One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
>>> switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the
>>> world
>>> where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
>>> milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
>>>
>>> We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number
>>> of
>>> men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to
>>> your
>>> leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
>>>
>>> Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
>>> Minneapolis, MN
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:50:20 -0300
From: Robin Tara <rtara@maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
To: Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net>, Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Have you noticed that many people who "switch roles", especially Argentinos,
don't actually switch lead and follow. The man is still leading but doing
followers steps and leading the leader's steps.
It's the same thing that makes many men difficult to lead. They seem to
think they need to "know and do" the followers steps, rather than being lead
to do them.
Best regards,
Robin
Tara Design, Inc.
www.taratangoshoes.com
Toll Free in US: 1-877-906-8272
18 Stillman St.
So. Portland ME 04106
207-741-2992--
> From: Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net>
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:15:29 -0500
> To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
>
> Although the milongas in BsAs are called "gay milongas", the majority of
> people who go there are not gay. They are mostly young, they are all kinds
> of people, foreigners and porteno's, and women are just as likely to lead
> men as men lead men or women lead women.
>
> I saw a lovely performance once at Club Espanol by an older couple.
> Somewhere in the middle, almost imperceptibly, they changed roles. A little
> later they changed back again. It was beautiful, and the crowd loved it.
>
> Loisa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith" <keith@tangohk.com>
> To: "Tango-L" <>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
>
>
>> Really? And which milongas in BsAs accept switching roles? I can only
>> recall
>> La Marshall - and that's because it's a gay milonga.
>>
>> Keith, HK
>>
>> On Tue Sep 11 23:42 , "Lois Donnay" sent:
>>
>>> After my Following for Leaders class last night, the men sat around
>>> talking.
>>> One question came up. We know there are milongas in Buenos Aires where
>>> switching roles is acceptable. Are there any other communities in the
>>> world
>>> where men are free to dance with men, women with women, etc? Are the
>>> milongas billed specially or is this acceptable in regular milongas?
>>>
>>> We also lamented the lack of male teachers who can follow, and the number
>>> of
>>> men who teach on the floor. Ladies, when you pick teachers or listen to
>>> your
>>> leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can follow?
>>>
>>> Loisa Donnay (adding the "a" in preparation for BsAs)
>>> Minneapolis, MN
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 03:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Switching roles
To: Tango-L <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
--- Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net> wrote:
> Ladies, when you pick
> teachers or listen to your
> leaders, do you take into consideration whether they can
> follow?
No, not even if the comment regards women's technique.
However, I have always compared their comments to those of
women whose dancing I admired. If there's a conflict of
ideas, I can usually attribute it to his particular dance
style/preferences. Of course, when I was "young and
stupid" in tango, I had no such discrimination.
In the same way that the woman is the expert on how a
really good leader feels, the man is the expert on how a
really good follower feels. This expertise is still there
regardless of whether he follows well or not. It's this
expertise that I'm interested in regarding his comments on
following. So he knows how it should feel like to him, but
she knows physically what's needed to create that
sensation.
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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