5395  Tai Chi Dan Tien and doing things in Twos

Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:08:23 -0500
From: "David Koucky" <davidkoucky@msn.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tai Chi Dan Tien and doing things in Twos
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>

My Tai Chi studies began in 1973. After 11 years of continuous lessons, I have been in the digestive phase for some time now. The comparisons with Tango are pertinent because both use sensitivity to accomplish movement. The practice of the partnered exercises (pushing hands, da liu, etc. ) will soon demonstrate that there is no limit to the amount of touch sensitivity that one may develop.

Here is a paraphrase from that study; "When you are full of yourself, there is no room for another". The recent interchange concerning metaphors seems to indicate that few people have any room for others. To those of you who are full of something (umbrage, confusion, past wounds and scars, pride, knowledge, hostility, or fresh fertilizer), try dropping the unneeded baggage. Make a little room for holding another in the parts you use to feel and understand.

The commentary on the mechanics of movement are of great interest to me. Tai Chi makes quite a study of movement through the dan tien (this is behind the navel). You may notice that you can feel a tickling sensation as your weight passes over the dan tien and your axis. I have noticed that leads prior to this point are easier for the follow to understand. This also clarifies your collect and standing over your axis. Tai Chi students will eventually try to harmonize the natural rhythm of movement with energy passing through the dan tien.

In both Tai Chi and Tango we will try to get this movement all the way from the floor to the center, to the connection. Tango must take movement from the tan tien to higher points in the body. Our connections tend to be near the heart. Shoulders, Throat, and Head energies might also be utilized.

So, if we have two highly energized, and highly attuned individuals, what happens? The Taoist philosophy describes two energies eternally joined, one giving birth to another. Yin becomes strong and give birth to Yang, Strong Yang gives birth two Yin. The two are inextricably entwined, and constantly spinning within us. I hope some of you hear Tango music during this description.

The point of this long digression is to get to the issue of dancing Tango. Leads are obliged to lead. The lead must constantly come up with a very Yang act of direct force. The follower must perfect the very Yin act of controlled yielding. I tend to see this as inherently unbalanced. One of us is very Yang, the other very Yin. We should anticipate and develop the inevitable change to the other part of our natural energy.

To the best of my ability, I think this means that a strong lead needs a listening and feeling that is equally strong. Followers who perfect their Yin energy should contemplate the strong yang part. This includes how your body tells us what you are up to ,and what you are intending with this dance.

Finally, Tai Chi is about conflict The practitioner must perfect the art of hiding movement. In spite of a physical contact, it is best to conceal your movements. Tango is intended to be about a cooperation. It is best to express your movements. It is entirely possible to express or conceal your self. Your dance may improve if you can tell which of these you are doing at any one time.

?Best Wishes to One And All

Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:23:35 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tai Chi Dan Tien and doing things in Twos
To: David Koucky <davidkoucky@msn.com>, "tango-l@mit.edu"
<tango-l@mit.edu>

David,

Loved your post. Please see a couple of comments below:

J

----------------------

> From: davidkoucky@msn.com

... ... ...

> The point of this long digression is to get to the issue of dancing Tango. Leads are obliged to lead. The lead must constantly
> come up with a very Yang act of direct force. The follower must perfect the very Yin act of controlled yielding. I tend to see this
> as inherently unbalanced. One of us is very Yang, the other very Yin. We should anticipate and develop the inevitable change
> to the other part of our natural energy.
>
> To the best of my ability, I think this means that a strong lead needs a listening and feeling that is equally strong.
> Followers who perfect their Yin energy should contemplate the strong yang part. This includes how your body
> tells us what you are up to ,and what you are intending with this dance.

... ... ...

Regarding the above, please look at how I've described this situation on my website. I'd be interested in your feedback.

https://tangomoments.com/pages/ATango.htm#gender


... ... ...

> Finally, Tai Chi is about conflict The practitioner must perfect the art of hiding movement. In spite of a physical contact, it is best to conceal your movements. Tango is intended to be about a cooperation. It is best to express your movements. It is entirely possible to express or conceal your self. Your dance may improve if you can tell which of these you are doing at any one time.

... ... ...

Regarding the above, I remember giving some classes to a man with many years of Tai Chi experience. He had a great deal of difficulty overcoming the Tai Chi conditioning about concealing his movements. When you're trying to lead, you must do the opposite and telegraph your intentions.

His other major problem was trying to overcome his Tai Chi way of walking with bent knees, and of learning when it was necessary to fully transfer his weight to one foot rather than keeping it distributed between both feet.

But regardless of his difficulties, it's been very clear to me for a long time, as you have described, that Tai Chi principles of energy flow and transition are completely relevant to what's going on in tango. Thanks again for the post.

J
TangoMoments.com





Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
https://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec

Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:02:22 -0500
From: "David Koucky" <davidkoucky@msn.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tai Chi Dan Tien and doing things in Twos
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>

At the heart of it, Coupled dancing is an agreement contest. The winner is the one who is the best at agreeing with their partner. If we are too insistent at "I want" part agreement will suffer.

Philosophical Taoism holds that change is the only constant. By using a lot of Yang, we get worn out and have to be Yin until Yin makes enough Yang to be Yang once more. Play a little Pedro Laurenz and see what you think.

Oddly Yin is the greater energy. Yin does not Do, it simply accomplishes. It is a bit of a pity that leads must constantly do. We are often bound up in the technical driving the car, and trying to think of what is next. Following can offer the opportunity for a greater awareness of the important parts. The trick is telling the lead about the music inside of yourself. Words are too slow.

Now back to Tai Chi. The two person exercises have a lead and a follow. One person begins with an active attempt. Following is used to respond. Tai Chi has a neutralizing movement that is used to reverse roles. I have yet to learn how to introduce this game to dance. This type of thing is more conflict and less agreement. If done poorly it looks like bad wrestling.

One final question. Have you ever seen a great Miloguera who daced like she was a subservient doormat? Some how the great women seem to be above our masculine tomfoolery.

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:56:50 -0500
From: Don Klein <don@aymta.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tai Chi Dan Tien and doing things in Twos
To: tango-l@mit.edu, davidkoucky@msn.com

Chan Park does a Tuishou exercise in his teaching, but I don't feel it's
very successful either for tango or taiji, but the similarity (and
differences) between the two arts are intriguing; if I can ever get
them down, I might write about them.

A Belgian friend had a person teaching tango in his studio, and now
teaches using tango moves in sanshou.

Don

> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:02:22 -0500
> From: "David Koucky" <davidkoucky@msn.com>
> Subject: [Tango-L] Tai Chi Dan Tien and doing things in Twos
> To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
>
> At the heart of it, Coupled dancing is an agreement contest. The winner is the one who is the best at agreeing with their partner. If we are too insistent at "I want" part agreement will suffer.
>
> Philosophical Taoism holds that change is the only constant. By using a lot of Yang, we get worn out and have to be Yin until Yin makes enough Yang to be Yang once more. Play a little Pedro Laurenz and see what you think.
>
> Oddly Yin is the greater energy. Yin does not Do, it simply accomplishes. It is a bit of a pity that leads must constantly do. We are often bound up in the technical driving the car, and trying to think of what is next. Following can offer the opportunity for a greater awareness of the important parts. The trick is telling the lead about the music inside of yourself. Words are too slow.
>
> Now back to Tai Chi. The two person exercises have a lead and a follow. One person begins with an active attempt. Following is used to respond. Tai Chi has a neutralizing movement that is used to reverse roles. I have yet to learn how to introduce this game to dance. This type of thing is more conflict and less agreement. If done poorly it looks like bad wrestling.
>
> One final question. Have you ever seen a great Miloguera who daced like she was a subservient doormat? Some how the great women seem to be above our masculine tomfoolery.
>