4981 Tall Tango Dancers.
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:19:18 +0100
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tall Tango Dancers.
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Afternoon,
I just want to know if there are any tall Tango leaders here on the list?
The reason I ask is that I am almost 6ft5 and would appreciate hearing from anyone else who has had experiance with height in Tango. The main things I have come across are in regards to my posture. I am really trying to be bold enough to flex up and not to shorten for the other person. My axis is still an ongoing experiment, and it currently a work in progress to what degree I should be bending my knees and whether this will lessen with better balance and strength gains. Also I am chopping an inch off everystep I take and really have to make this a habit. What was interesting last week was when I was learning Cucharita(s), I discoverd that I am unable to bend my knee and pull up as it is normally done as there really is not enough space. For me it will always be more movement in the ankle and foot then the knee and leg.
I have heard the name Alex Krebs mentioned who appears to be about my height and am currently looking around for articles he has written.
Mainly I am asking for advice and guidence for somone of my height. Also any feedback from the ladies on the list would be very much appreciated. What are the dos and don'ts you have come across when dancing with tall leaders, what could they have done better?
If you have any thoughts, please let me know.
Thanks
'Mash
London,UK
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:06:20 +0000
From: rockies@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tall Tango Dancers.
To: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>, tango-l@mit.edu
<052920071906.10481.465C79AC000B1F7E000028F122064244130101009B9D@comcast.net>
Hi Mash,
I'm not 6'5" but taller than some, and I had the occasion to ask Alex Krebs how he leads shorter followers. He said that he uses a belly lead and keeps his upper body straight, but his hips are forward in relation to his feet (there is a bend at his waist). His legs come up at a steeper angle, and then his back is held at a different, shallower angle (relative to the ground that is). This is a contrast to the normal posture where the angle of a person's shins will match the angle of their back when balanced (assuming they are stationary, but ready to move. This adapted posture allows the shorter followers to connect their chest to his stomach without them having to bend backwards... or attempt to connect with their heads. You definitely have to make sure not to stoop forward, no matter how tall you are. I've managed to dance with a partner who is 4'8" or so in heels with this style of lead... but I'm 6'1", not 6'5". I know one leader who is 6'8" and he complains that he wil
l neve
r be good at this dance, because he's just too big... But he hasn't tried Alex's modified posture either.
Good luck,
Randy
-------------- Original message ----------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:35:22 +0000
From: "Sergio Vandekier" <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tall Tango Dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Stephen says : "For very tall leaders, followers of average height may not
be used to
making the adjustments in their own embrace. This raises the difficult
issue of verbal communication."
I entirely agree with Stephen's observations.
When I am faced with the situation described ( a shorter woman placing her
left arm too high on my right one) I do not use any verbal communication, I
just lower the position of her arm using my left hand and continue dancing.
With best regards, Sergio
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 18:43:42 +0100
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tall Tango Dancers
Thanks to everyone who has emailed me on and off the list.
It's been good to see Krebs in action and where I think I could focus on
improving, and polishing up. (Dare I say, even on Krebs.)
I am very much in the agreement that the hand should be lowered to the
shoulder level of the follower, unless they are comfortable otherwise.
If anything I have a determination now to use my height and focus on not
trying to be smaller, but to work on fluidity.
Being taller overall should lend to the grace of the dance rather then
hinder it.
'Mash
London, UK
On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 11:07:16PM +0000, rockies@comcast.net wrote:
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org
> > Mash:
> >
> > I'm not 6'5", but I am taller than many tango dancers.
> >
> > Knowing Alex Krebs and having seen him dance with numerous partners that
> > are quite a bit shorter than he is, I don't agree with the assessment that
> > he alters his posture. Look at Alex dancing with Luciana Valle on
> > YouTube.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_fScjyWc
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJcuRuAj9W0
>
> I know Alex reasonably well also, he was one of my greatest influences as a teacher. You can disagree if you want. Alex rarely changes his posture, and was only relating what he told me personally, that for very short partners (whose chests only come up to his navel for example), he alters his stance. He only does it only in *close* embrace (milongeuero if you want to call it that) , also, and not for every follower. It was subtle, but there. Your example videos are a flawed support for your argument. The first example video only showed open, and the second is a v type - salon style. They have a few inches seperating them - obviously there is no need to alter his stance for this type of dance. Second, there would be no need for him to change his stance for Luciana Valle - she is a superb follower, capable of making someone 7'4" look good. Her chest falls between Alex's navel and his chest, so she is not tremendously shorter. Luciana is most likely taking cues from othe!
r p
> laces
> on Alex than some followers would (off his arm -at one point you can see her shift the embrace there- or his back). Inexperienced followers would likely not be able to follow the alternate cues. Plus, she has danced with Alex as his teaching partner, previously (a LOT). They know each other's style well.
> >
> > My suggestions for tall leaders are as follows: Keep your posture at your
> > own height; don't bend down to lower dancers. Lower your left hand to her
> > shoulder height. Lead with the belly and chest as normal and recognize
> > that much shorter dancers may be less able to take big steps backward. Let
> > yourself get familiar and comfortable with each follower before asking
> > much of her and yourself.
>
> Well, I agree with you on most of those points anyway. For a really short follower in close embrace, I personally find that it's most important to keep the body core firm when leading a very short follower off the stomach.
>
> Cheers,
> Randy
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:49:09 -0400
From: Barbara <varvarak@pobox.upenn.edu>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tall Tango Dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
In addition to what's already been said, here's a 5.1" follower's 2 cents:
1) It's not just about posture. It's your whole movement. A medium-sized
step of a tall leader is a *gigantic* step for a shortie :) . If a tall
leader goes slightly off-axis, it feels like a tornado to the follower.
You can imagine the rest :) Point being, that a tall leader has to
adjust his whole movement at a lower-scale. And yes, the follower does
have responsibility as well, however I think it's easier to downsize
than supersize, no? :)
2) hygiene! Picture a very tall leader and a short follower dancing.
Where will the follower's nose be? Chances are, closer to leader's
armpits and chest than any other body part. Where will the leader's
nose be? Most likely, over her head. Therefore, tall leaders, deodorant
and clean shirts are your best friends! And for short followers, so is
shampoo (preferably with not too-strong a fragrance).
Barbara
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tall Tango Dancers
Hi Mash,
Here are a couple of tips concerning close-embrace tango
that I haven't heard mentioned. It's been useful to one of
our 4'11" student who dances with 6' Sean and taller guys.
GETTING LONGER STEPS FROM YOUR PARTNER
- It's much easier for women to take longer steps when they
allow the man to carry their weight as they transfer their
weight. As long as the woman keeps her core and the man
shares his weight with her, she will still feel weightless
to the leader. This shared weight will occur if you're
apilado, which can be acheived if you're in a neutral
position by keeping your chest (or point of contact on the
torso) still while repositioning your standing leg slightly
back. Then you will just make sure to soften her knee so
she can bend it as needed to take a longer step backwards
while leaning against you. For example, if you want to
step forward with your left foot, reposition your right
foot without changing her position, and then step forward
with your left. You'll both be in a lean and should feel a
stronger pressure during the initial part of the step.
The shared weight is also helpful for her taking long steps
forward. I don't know of anyway to trick her into sharing
weight going forwards though if she doesn't already know
that technique.
REACHING HIGHER IN THE EMBRACE
- The trick to the woman lifting her left arm higher for a
tall man is for her to rotate her upper arm and then lift.
The bone of the upper arm is shaped with a knob at the top.
If she just lifts her arm, that knob will push up the
collar bone, which will limit her mobility and may cause
her arm to feel heavy. However, if she rotates her upper
arm counterclockwise, the knobby part of the bone will be
out of the way of the collar bone. She can then lift her
arm much higher without forcing up her shoulder.
You can try it by placing your right arm on your left
shoulder and lifting your arm both ways. It should be a
noticeable difference. I usually teach the movement with
the right arm first, with the palm side of the hand as the
head of a snake that is slithering up a tree. Then it's
easier to transfer the movement to the left arm.
Hope that helps.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- 'Mash <mashdot@toshine.net> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who has emailed me on and off the
> list.
>
> It's been good to see Krebs in action and where I think I
> could focus on
> improving, and polishing up. (Dare I say, even on Krebs.)
> I am very much in the agreement that the hand should be
> lowered to the
> shoulder level of the follower, unless they are
> comfortable otherwise.
>
> If anything I have a determination now to use my height
> and focus on not
> trying to be smaller, but to work on fluidity.
> Being taller overall should lend to the grace of the
> dance rather then
> hinder it.
>
> 'Mash
> London, UK
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 11:07:16PM +0000,
> rockies@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org
> > > Mash:
> > >
> > > I'm not 6'5", but I am taller than many tango
> dancers.
> > >
> > > Knowing Alex Krebs and having seen him dance with
> numerous partners that
> > > are quite a bit shorter than he is, I don't agree
> with the assessment that
> > > he alters his posture. Look at Alex dancing with
> Luciana Valle on
> > > YouTube.
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_fScjyWc
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJcuRuAj9W0
> >
> > I know Alex reasonably well also, he was one of my
> greatest influences as a teacher. You can disagree if you
> want. Alex rarely changes his posture, and was only
> relating what he told me personally, that for very short
> partners (whose chests only come up to his navel for
> example), he alters his stance. He only does it only in
> *close* embrace (milongeuero if you want to call it that)
> , also, and not for every follower. It was subtle, but
> there. Your example videos are a flawed support for your
> argument. The first example video only showed open, and
> the second is a v type - salon style. They have a few
> inches seperating them - obviously there is no need to
> alter his stance for this type of dance. Second, there
> would be no need for him to change his stance for Luciana
> Valle - she is a superb follower, capable of making
> someone 7'4" look good. Her chest falls between Alex's
> navel and his chest, so she is not tremendously shorter.
> Luciana is most likely taking cues from othe!
> r p
> > laces
> > on Alex than some followers would (off his arm -at one
> point you can see her shift the embrace there- or his
> back). Inexperienced followers would likely not be able
> to follow the alternate cues. Plus, she has danced with
> Alex as his teaching partner, previously (a LOT). They
> know each other's style well.
> > >
> > > My suggestions for tall leaders are as follows: Keep
> your posture at your
> > > own height; don't bend down to lower dancers. Lower
> your left hand to her
> > > shoulder height. Lead with the belly and chest as
> normal and recognize
> > > that much shorter dancers may be less able to take
> big steps backward. Let
> > > yourself get familiar and comfortable with each
> follower before asking
> > > much of her and yourself.
> >
> > Well, I agree with you on most of those points anyway.
> For a really short follower in close embrace, I
> personally find that it's most important to keep the body
> core firm when leading a very short follower off the
> stomach.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Randy
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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