5263 Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:13:22 -0400
From: "Neil Liveakos" <neil.liveakos@gmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<737e9d3f0710250813wcf5f148nfe2a5ff6743ff223@mail.gmail.com>
All,
Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers regard close-embrace
dancers as creeps?
Neil
https://milonga.us
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:29:20 -0700
From: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: Neil Liveakos <neil.liveakos@gmail.com>, Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
ABSOULUTELY!
i work with alot of teenaged dancers (ballerinas) and college aged (dingbats). they hate going to public tango stuff with me because of "merv the perv" and the "stinky old men". instead of letting the girls get "comfy" with being close, some of the leaders pull them in too tight at first, and "poof" it's OVER. all of these girls will get beyond close if you give them a chance to get to know you.
btw, most of these girls love the big ochos, and other "fantasia moves", so usually if you let them do a few of those dances, you can get them in close once in a while. and there is nothing like seeing ballerinas doing the "flash stuff", they just love it, and since they are used to training for hours a day, they are like the "energizer bunny" once you get them going. it may not look like what you are used to, but it is fun, and they are enthusiastic.
they will dance all day and night if they are having fun with leaders that give them some room.The TangonistaSponsered by P.E.T.A. (People Expressing Tango Attitude)NOTICE - no cats were injured in the making of our music
Climb to the top of the charts!? Play Star Shuffle:? the word scramble challenge with star power.
https://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:31:21 -0400
From: Martin Waxman <martin@waxman.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: "Neil Liveakos" <neil.liveakos@gmail.com>, Tango-L
<tango-l@mit.edu>
At 11:13 AM 10/25/2007, Neil Liveakos wrote:
>All,
>Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers regard close-embrace
>dancers as creeps?
>Neil
Occasionally.
But you didn't say which side are you on. Open or Closed?
Are you a creep?
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:42:14 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: "Neil Liveakos" <neil.liveakos@gmail.com>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<cff24c340710250942l3345feaan7c5d16f71157fcc4@mail.gmail.com>
On 10/25/07, Neil Liveakos <neil.liveakos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> All,
> Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers regard
> close-embrace
> dancers as creeps?
>
> Neil
> https://milonga.us
Yes, but it is mostly the dancers who are not good at dancing in the (close)
embrace who get this reaction, from what I have seen. What I'm referring to
are the men who usually dance tango in an open frame and while dancing they
bring the women close to them, often holding them too tight because they
lack the proper technique, or maybe because they are motivated by hormonal
surges. They are selective with regard to the women upon whom they bestow
this (dis)honor, and they have motives other than good tango dancing. It is
the creeps like these who give tango a bad name. I tell our women students
it is OK to drop these Neanderthals in the middle of a tango.
When we teach tango, we emphasize the embrace is like a hug (same word
'abrazo' in Spanish). It is firm but not confining. It is affectionate but
not lascivious. The embrace is an essential defining quality of tango. The
Argentines know this. To break the embrace is to transform tango into just
another ballroom dance.
Given that, I have occasionally encountered women fighting like bucking
broncos to break the embrace. Once in another community, a woman told me she
felt confined in the embrace. That was because she was dancing with her
weight back on her heels. You can't dance in the embrace with your weight
back on your heels. It becomes a belly dance rather than una conexion de los
corazones.
Of course, there are those who won't dance tango close because of the strong
Puritanical values that pervade our American culture. Tango is not a good
dance for people like these.
Ron
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:17:47 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
I've always been taught that the woman determines the nature of the embrace.
The man simply opens his right arm and the woman completes the embrace. Whether
she takes an open or a close embrace - the man respects it. It's not uncommon
for a woman to start in an open embrace and, by the end of the tanda, the embrace
is close. There should never be any question of the man pulling in the woman or
of women ... "fighting like bucking broncos to break the embrace".
If the man doesn't like the woman's choice of embrace, he can simply choose not
to ask her to dance again.
Keith, HK
On Fri Oct 26 0:42 , "Tango Society of Central Illinois" sent:
>On 10/25/07, Neil Liveakos neil.liveakos@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>> Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers regard
>> close-embrace
>> dancers as creeps?
>>
>> Neil
>> https://milonga.us
>
>
>
>Yes, but it is mostly the dancers who are not good at dancing in the (close)
>embrace who get this reaction, from what I have seen. What I'm referring to
>are the men who usually dance tango in an open frame and while dancing they
>bring the women close to them, often holding them too tight because they
>lack the proper technique, or maybe because they are motivated by hormonal
>surges. They are selective with regard to the women upon whom they bestow
>this (dis)honor, and they have motives other than good tango dancing. It is
>the creeps like these who give tango a bad name. I tell our women students
>it is OK to drop these Neanderthals in the middle of a tango.
>
>When we teach tango, we emphasize the embrace is like a hug (same word
>'abrazo' in Spanish). It is firm but not confining. It is affectionate but
>not lascivious. The embrace is an essential defining quality of tango. The
>Argentines know this. To break the embrace is to transform tango into just
>another ballroom dance.
>
>Given that, I have occasionally encountered women fighting like bucking
>broncos to break the embrace. Once in another community, a woman told me she
>felt confined in the embrace. That was because she was dancing with her
>weight back on her heels. You can't dance in the embrace with your weight
>back on your heels. It becomes a belly dance rather than una conexion de los
>corazones.
>
>Of course, there are those who won't dance tango close because of the strong
>Puritanical values that pervade our American culture. Tango is not a good
>dance for people like these.
>
>Ron
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:43:40 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: keith@tangohk.com
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<cff24c340710251043g6bc4117cnee7a9328af875beb@mail.gmail.com>
On 10/25/07, Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
>
> I've always been taught that the woman determines the nature of the
> embrace.
> The man simply opens his right arm and the woman completes the embrace.
> Whether
> she takes an open or a close embrace - the man respects it. It's not
> uncommon
> for a woman to start in an open embrace and, by the end of the tanda, the
> embrace
> is close. There should never be any question of the man pulling in the
> woman or
> of women ... "fighting like bucking broncos to break the embrace".
>
> If the man doesn't like the woman's choice of embrace, he can simply
> choose not
> to ask her to dance again.
>
> Keith, HK
A female tourist goes to Buenos Aires for the first time and goes to a
milonga. She somehow accidently understands the cabeceo and a porten~o
approaches her for a dance. He engages her in the embrace and she pulls
away. At the end of the first song of the tanda, he escorts her back to her
seat and no one else asks her to dance for the remainder of the evening.
In Buenos Aires it is understood that tango is danced in the (close)
embrace. Somehow something has been lost in translation (transmission) as
tango has been adapted to suit local customs around the world.
We are talking about tango here, the danced that originated in Buenos Aires,
aren't we? Maybe we can give that dance that breaks the embrace another name
so we don't get confused.
Of course, even in Buenos Aires a woman can refuse to dance with a man
because his embrace is unconfortable and there is no paucity of lechers and
drunkards in milongas there either.
Ron
On Fri Oct 26 0:42 , "Tango Society of Central Illinois" sent:
>
> >On 10/25/07, Neil Liveakos neil.liveakos@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> All,
> >> Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers regard
> >> close-embrace
> >> dancers as creeps?
> >>
> >> Neil
> >> https://milonga.us
> >
> >
> >
> >Yes, but it is mostly the dancers who are not good at dancing in the
> (close)
> >embrace who get this reaction, from what I have seen. What I'm referring
> to
> >are the men who usually dance tango in an open frame and while dancing
> they
> >bring the women close to them, often holding them too tight because they
> >lack the proper technique, or maybe because they are motivated by
> hormonal
> >surges. They are selective with regard to the women upon whom they bestow
> >this (dis)honor, and they have motives other than good tango dancing. It
> is
> >the creeps like these who give tango a bad name. I tell our women
> students
> >it is OK to drop these Neanderthals in the middle of a tango.
> >
> >When we teach tango, we emphasize the embrace is like a hug (same word
> >'abrazo' in Spanish). It is firm but not confining. It is affectionate
> but
> >not lascivious. The embrace is an essential defining quality of tango.
> The
> >Argentines know this. To break the embrace is to transform tango into
> just
> >another ballroom dance.
> >
> >Given that, I have occasionally encountered women fighting like bucking
> >broncos to break the embrace. Once in another community, a woman told me
> she
> >felt confined in the embrace. That was because she was dancing with her
> >weight back on her heels. You can't dance in the embrace with your weight
> >back on your heels. It becomes a belly dance rather than una conexion de
> los
> >corazones.
> >
> >Of course, there are those who won't dance tango close because of the
> strong
> >Puritanical values that pervade our American culture. Tango is not a good
> >dance for people like these.
> >
> >Ron
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:10:06 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
> All,
> Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers regard close-embrace
> dancers as creeps?
>
> Neil
Of course. However, not only "open dancers" regard some "close-embrace" dancers as creeps. Oh yeah, there are probably "open dancers" out there who are regarded as creeps too..... It's not the style of dancing which defines creepiness ;-)
And one other thing, the creepiness can be in the eye of the beholder too....
Cheers,
Manuel
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:46:05 +1000
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0162239BDA@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
I agree with Manuel. It is really a bit of a non issue. Closed and open can both be good, but the main thing is that both dancers are comfortable and connected to each other and the music. I personally prefer closed because for me it feels more connected most of the time, but sometimes height difference, general nervousness, nuevo music/moves etc mean open is actually better. I don't see that many creeps in tango, but the women can tell who the creeps are whether they are dancing open or closed.
Victor Bennetts
-----Original Message-----
From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of WHITE 95 R
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 6:10 AM
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
> All,
> Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers regard close-embrace
> dancers as creeps?
>
> Neil
Of course. However, not only "open dancers" regard some "close-embrace" dancers as creeps. Oh yeah, there are probably "open dancers" out there who are regarded as creeps too..... It's not the style of dancing which defines creepiness ;-)
And one other thing, the creepiness can be in the eye of the beholder too....
Cheers,
Manuel
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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 05:10:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Creeps - A Question for Halloween
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Many times it's not their opening or closing the embrace as
much as their opening or closing their mouths (and what may
spew forth) that can make dancers creepy.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > All,
> > Has anyone encountered the situation where open dancers
> regard close-embrace
> > dancers as creeps?
> >
> > Neil
>
> Of course. However, not only "open dancers" regard some
> "close-embrace" dancers as creeps. Oh yeah, there are
> probably "open dancers" out there who are regarded as
> creeps too..... It's not the style of dancing which
> defines creepiness ;-)
> And one other thing, the creepiness can be in the eye of
> the beholder too....
>
> Cheers,
>
> Manuel
>
>
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
