4785 tango dancers and tango music
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 01:51:41 -0800 (PST)
From: paul wouters <pwouters2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] tango dancers and tango music
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hi all ... greetings from ISTANBUL TURKEY,
There is a strange topic being BATTLED. Strange to me - anyway.
The "classical argentine tango" is what we know of the old recordings.
It has been written in a certain time frame - certain historical settings - with the instruments that were available at those places at those times - and to compete against certain other types of music that existed in those days.
Some people can "play alike - same style". Or they just play the same music with contemporary instruments in a nowaday frame.
Those days are gone. In the mean time the world and life have evolved. I think that some people did not notice this.
No one is saying that the regular tango no longer is tango. We all agree on that. Only some people want to dance tango on new music framing.
When enough people follow the new directions, tango dancing and tango music as a whole simply will follow.
Even when the tango music would turn new paths, so be it. This is LIFE people. We may try to preserve the "good old days" because they were good and brought us happiness and because they still have value on this very dat, but we should not live in the past.
And it are the tango dancers that will decide ! They do their thing on the music that is presented ... or they don't ... it is THAT simple.
I do not see the reason for a fight at all. Some people like TANTURI ... and some don't. Some like NEO TANGO ... and some don't. Either NEO will just have a short life ... or it will stay ...
If you want to have any battle at all ... live it on the dance floor ... by sitting down or dancing on certain songs ... do NOT create a never ending discussion about who OWNS ETERNAL WISDOM and who can decide on this. I do not own such wisdom ... and no one does.
Do not fight this issue ... just dance tango ... just enjoy life ...
And please note ... I do not intend to start a new fight over this :) ... no need for a polemic ... life is difficult enough as it is ...
Again my two cents
paul wouters
www.istanbultango.com
Need Mail bonding?
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:48:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tango dancers and tango music
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hi Paul,
Nice post. There is always resistance to change when
people are asked to expand their comfort zone. When I
worked as an operations manager, whenever a new procedure
was introduced, there was usually someone grumbling.
Getting people to accept change was always a challenge,
except for those who were already open to change. (That
ever happen where you work?) Either the change stayed or
it didn't but only time and usage determined that.
I think the same thing is happening here in tango. Only
tango is something that cannot be dictated to someone else.
I am not saying that some on this list are trying to
dictate it because they really couldn't even if they tried.
They are just stating their preferences quite strongly.
As for phrasing, what I see happening is that Argentine
Tango with the older music is being referred to as
"traditional Argentine tango", which implies that the nuevo
and neotango music will eventually be considered simply
"Argentine tango". Something Carol eluded to in her post
about vintage dance. At milongas, for example, more and
more people expect a little alternative music to be played.
Whenever we have a guest instructor or DJ in town that
prefers only traditional music (e.g, Susana Miller or
Robert Hauk), we specify that milongas are "traditional",
so that dancers know not to request alternative music. As
I recall, a few years ago Pablo Veron and Gustavo stopped
calling their style "Nuevo" and simply called it "tango".
This is consistent with that trend. What determines the
trend? Common usage.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- paul wouters <pwouters2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all ... greetings from ISTANBUL TURKEY,
>
> There is a strange topic being BATTLED. Strange to me -
> anyway.
>
> The "classical argentine tango" is what we know of the
> old recordings.
>
> It has been written in a certain time frame - certain
> historical settings - with the instruments that were
> available at those places at those times - and to
> compete against certain other types of music that existed
> in those days.
>
> Some people can "play alike - same style". Or they just
> play the same music with contemporary instruments in a
> nowaday frame.
>
> Those days are gone. In the mean time the world and life
> have evolved. I think that some people did not notice
> this.
>
> No one is saying that the regular tango no longer is
> tango. We all agree on that. Only some people want to
> dance tango on new music framing.
>
> When enough people follow the new directions, tango
> dancing and tango music as a whole simply will follow.
>
> Even when the tango music would turn new paths, so be it.
> This is LIFE people. We may try to preserve the "good
> old days" because they were good and brought us happiness
> and because they still have value on this very dat, but
> we should not live in the past.
>
> And it are the tango dancers that will decide ! They do
> their thing on the music that is presented ... or they
> don't ... it is THAT simple.
>
> I do not see the reason for a fight at all. Some people
> like TANTURI ... and some don't. Some like NEO TANGO ...
> and some don't. Either NEO will just have a short life
> ... or it will stay ...
>
> If you want to have any battle at all ... live it on the
> dance floor ... by sitting down or dancing on certain
> songs ... do NOT create a never ending discussion about
> who OWNS ETERNAL WISDOM and who can decide on this. I do
> not own such wisdom ... and no one does.
>
> Do not fight this issue ... just dance tango ... just
> enjoy life ...
>
> And please note ... I do not intend to start a new fight
> over this :) ... no need for a polemic ... life is
> difficult enough as it is ...
>
> Again my two cents
>
> paul wouters
> www.istanbultango.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Need Mail bonding?
> Answers users.
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Never Miss an Email
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:56:02 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tango dancers and tango music
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Trini:
"There is always resistance to change when people are asked to expand their
comfort zone."
Igor.
I hope you did not apply it to me. I am in the comfort zone. More than that.
I am in comfort zone in Neo Tango as well.
Who is afraid to came out of comfort zone?
People like AJ. Researching, researching, listening, listening, and still
having no idea what music is Canyengue.
Carol, who never was able to master tango dance, so she is looking for a
sign of a Neo dancer in a person approaching her. I guess it is cargo pants.
They are in comfort zone of their own achievements.
We are dragging them out to a new ( for them ) rich proved exciting world,
but they planted their feet.
Should I leave them there?
Less troubles for me.
Trini:
"At milongas, for example, more and more people expect a little alternative
music to be played."
Igor.
I find it exactly opposite. New tango dancers form their own dance floor
which is to the good of everyone. On Traditional Milongas they play less and
less of alternative staff if any. Pompous and tasteless music of 1960-1970
hardly played anywhere anymore. Many ( you do not believe me? Then it is up
to you to face the consequences ) groups of musicians perform in classical
style. And they are getting better and better with it !
Trini:
I recall, a few years ago ... Gustavo [ Naviera ] stopped calling their
style "Nuevo" and simply called it "tango".
Igor.
Yes, I have heard that too. Explanation? He started to dance traditionally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Sjfo57BB8&NR
Trini, you live in our own world. Open your eyes!
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:52:14 -0500
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] tango dancers and tango music
To: tango-l@mit.edu
"Carol, who never was able to master tango dance, so she is looking for a
sign of a Neo dancer in a person approaching her. I guess it is cargo
pants."
Hello, who is this Carol? And how did you know she was never able to master
tango dance? I'm lost here.
Caroline
https://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cpC.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene702663&cidzBE80D1746919B4!1329
>>From January 26 to February 8, 2007
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:22:23 -0500
From: AJ Azure <azure.music@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tango dancers and tango music
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Eer aren't you making a big assumption on a musician you know pretty much
zilch about?
> People like AJ. Researching, researching, listening, listening, and still
> having no idea what music is Canyengue.
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:45:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tango dancers and tango music
Hi Igor,
I am hosting a workshop this weekend, so I'll be off of
Tango-L for awhile, but here are a few comments.
> Trini:
> "There is always resistance to change when people are
> asked to expand their comfort zone."
>
> Igor.
> I hope you did not apply it to me. I am in the comfort
> zone. More than that.
Very good! But being in an uncomfort zone is how we learn
and grow sometimes, so it's not such a bad thing.
> Carol, who never was able to master tango dance, ...
Was that comment really necessary?
> Trini:
> "At milongas, for example, more and more people expect a
> little alternative music to be played."
>
> Igor.
> I find it exactly opposite. New tango dancers form their
> own dance floor which is to the good of everyone. On
Traditional Milongas they play less and less of alternative
staff if any. Pompous and tasteless music of 1960-1970
hardly played anywhere anymore.
I don't know what milongas you go to, but that change in
60's-70's music is likely because deejays are getting
better, planning better and are finding a different range
of material. At the milongas I go to throughout the
Eastern and Central states, they are definitely playing
more alternative music. And the deejays always report that
people are asking for alternative. I haven't heard a
deejay report people asking for traditional orchestras.
Actually, that might be an interesting question to ask the
deejays on this list - what tango orchestras/music are
dancers requesting?
> Trini:
> I recall, a few years ago ... Gustavo [ Naviera ] stopped
> calling their
> style "Nuevo" and simply called it "tango".
>
> Igor.
> Yes, I have heard that too. Explanation? He started to
> dance traditionally:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Sjfo57BB8&NR
That's a milonga, not tango.
> Trini, you live in our own world. Open your eyes!
*laughs* They are quite open, Igor. But I listen a lot,
research lots of different sources, and ask a lot of
questions. And I know what questions to ask and how to
analyse the info (my field is marketing research). So my
observations have strong bases. Your observations may be
quite different in your part of the country.
Happy tangos,
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
