5481 Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:56:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I say that tango is a dance of collections or pivots
rather than a walking dance. I say this to change to
focus of the dance to where the real tango takes
place.
I use the term pivot to indicate the point in a step
where the feet are collected.
At the pivot, you can lead your follow to:
- do a side step
- do a back step
- do a front step
- pivot (swivel)
>>From the pivot, there are all kinds of moves, such as
boleos and volcadas, that come from leading the
beginning of a step. So, let?s break down a step to
see how it is really just a part of the pivot.
I think of a step as five parts, the fourth and fifth
parts mirroring the first and second parts. To list
the five parts of a step, let?s look at the process of
starting on your left foot, taking a side step and
ending on your right foot:
1. Stand on your left foot with your feet collected.
2. Slightly bend your left knee and extend your right
foot to the side with a straight knee. Keep your body
aligned over your left foot.
3. Transfer your weight to the point where your body
is positioned between your feet. This point is ?no
man?s land?, the point where you never want to leave
your follower.
4. Transfer your weight over your right foot leaving
your left foot in it?s original place. Your right
knee will, now, be slightly bent and your left knee
will be straight.
5. Collect left foot to your right foot. Remain
standing on your right foot.
Notice that #3 is the mid-point. Now, let?s rewrite
this sequence to let the pivot be the mid-point:
1. Stand on your right foot with your right knee bent
and your left foot out to the left with your left knee
straight.
2. Move your left foot to a collection with your
right, remaining on your right foot.
You are now in the pivot
1. Stand on your right foot with your right foot with
your feet together.
2. Bend your right knee slightly and move your left
foot out to the left, straightening your left knee.
Yes, we have not talked about step #3. But, that is
no-man?s land, anyway.
My point in describing tango movements in this way is
to shift the focus of the dance from steps to pivots.
It is coming in and out of the pivot, and being in the
pivot, where most of tango takes place. If you think
in these terms, then, your focus will shift from
varying the feel and technique of moving in and out of
your pivots, thus, honing your technique regarding
softness and balance.
I prefer to think in terms of softness and balance
rather than steps.
Also, in centering my thinking around this method, it
is a natural progression to think of tortion,
mirroring or matching your partner, circular and
linear boleos, and fake steps, which I like to call
?teasing my partner?. I also like to think of these
fake steps and varying amounts of tortion as my way to
hone my communication with my partner because this is
where we will both be spending a lot of time, as
leaders, doing the unexpected. As our follower
responds and we respond to her response, our ability
to communicate increases and our dancing gets softer.
All of that and we weren?t even thinking of steps!
You gotta love tango!
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:21:02 +0200
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Wow! I see some really good points. Yes, the idea that the focus is the
pivot is great. And the definition of it "I use the term pivot to indicate
the point in a step where the feet are collected." is right on target. I
would add that the collection is not absolute necessity as far as the
dynamic balance point is "collected". And yes, the steps are just means to
get from one "pivot" to another. Absolutely true.
But, still, a long way to go :-)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 9:56 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
I say that tango is a dance of collections or pivots
rather than a walking dance. I say this to change to
focus of the dance to where the real tango takes
place.
I use the term pivot to indicate the point in a step
where the feet are collected.
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:45:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: tango-l@mit.edu
--- Krasimir Stoyanov <krasimir@krasimir.com> wrote:
>
> Wow! I see some really good points. Yes, the idea
> that the focus is the
> pivot is great. And the definition of it "I use the
> term pivot to indicate
> the point in a step where the feet are collected."
> is right on target. I
> would add that the collection is not absolute
> necessity as far as the
> dynamic balance point is "collected". And yes, the
> steps are just means to
> get from one "pivot" to another. Absolutely true.
>
> But, still, a long way to go :-)
>
As for "a long way to go", you're right. That's just
the tip of the iceberg. Once you get someone
thinking, and doing in those terms, you can, then,
draw them into the conversation of how to dance for
her!
I mean, to me, so much of the technique required for
putting softness into your dance derives from this
discussion. Especially, the discussion of finding the
point of elasticity in your follower is based on this.
But, before that, comes the discussion of building a
sense of security with your follower. The topic of
balance is related to entering and exiting the pivot
or even just being in the pivot. So, when you
practice thinking in these terms, you are practicing
techniques related to balance. And, when you do that,
your follower becomes much more ensured that you
understand her. And, from THERE, I find that
followers give me a much more beautiful and dynamic
dance partnership.
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:03:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots -
correction
To: tango-l@mit.edu
In one of the paragraphs near the end:
If you think in these terms, then, your focus will
shift from varying ...
should read:
If you think in these terms, then, your focus will
shift to varying ...
Also, I want to state my opinion that a lot of leaders
are stuck in the mentality of moving through the
patterns that they are taught. That, alone, is not
enough.
Shifting one's focus from the patterns to the details
in the pivot is, in effect, shifting your focus to
your follower. You don't need patterns!!! You already
know how to move in tango. Shift your focus to her
and you will find that the dance really is about her!
:o)
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:14:41 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: Tango-L <tango-L@mit.edu>
On Jan 21, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Tango For Her wrote:
> I say that tango is a dance of collections or pivots
> rather than a walking dance. I say this to change to
> focus of the dance to where the real tango takes
> place.
I disagree that this technical explanation gets at the "real tango".
Music and feel are more important than technique. You can do a
spectacular "real" tango by dropping one or any number of these
technical elements.
> I use the term pivot to indicate the point in a step
> where the feet are collected.
You are describing a staccato form of pivoting.
This is a perfect example of repeating what teachers SAY instead of
looking at what they ACTUALLY DO.
Normally, when walking or doing ochos, you want to "pass-by-close" or
"pass-by-while-pivoting" or "pass-by-then-pivot" or "pivot-then-pass-
by", not "snap to the collect, pivot, & snap to the reach". The
default movement for walking or ochos should be a flowing, not a
staccato. Staccato is an interesting decoration, but flowing is a
better foundation for walking and ochos. Women who have been taught
the staccato "collect-pivot-reach" have a hard time doing the flowing
"pass-by-while-pivoting" motion. It disables boleos, which are more
commonly accomplished with flowing motions, rather than staccato ones.
Even the word itself "COLLECT" causes a lot of problems by making
women (men also) think they need to snap to the middle of each step.
The sultry quality of movement is better evoked using the words: "PASS
BY CLOSE".
And if you look at the actual dancers, from nuevo to milonguero, you
see that 95% of the time they are passing by close, not "collecting".
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org
2525 Birch St
Denver, CO 80207
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:39:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: Tango-L <tango-L@mit.edu>
Tom wrote: "snap to the collect, pivot, & snap to the
reach"
Tom, Tom, Tom. I can write about elegant flowing
movements just as well as you. You missed the point.
But, thank you. You wrote a great chapter two!
See? We ARE on to the real tango!
It is great to teach people about deriving tango from
the pivot and moving in and out of it. After showing
that these "steps" can be thought of in terms of
pivots, then, such elegant descriptions as yours have
a proper home! :o)
And, of course music and feeling are important.
Sorry. It seems that no one should EVER use the term
?real tango? on this list. It makes people start
writing about completely different subjects that
should have different headings. My post was about
centering tango around the pivot rather than the
steps. Duh! Hey, everyone! Don?t forget to use
musicality and feelings! I think Tom is going to
write about it in a completely different post.
By the way, I didn?t get this from a teacher. This
is part of how I think of the dance. This is a
beginning to how I think of teaching leaders to get
their head out of the patterns and onto the woman?s
body so that the dance can be about her. So, no, I am
not one of your slandering examples! Tisk! Tisk!
Tisk!
So, here we have it.
CHAPTER ONE: Deriving your lead from the pivot. Focus
on the follower, not the steps.
CHAPTER TWO: Moving fluently through the pivot.
ADDENDUM TO CHAPTER ONE:
At a point in time, during the pivot, you can see the
feet collected together. It?s just a point in time as
I describe 5 positions in a step. DON?T GET FREAKED
OUT!
I guess you could say that a point in time is
staccado. Thanks, Tom!
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:22:57 +0200
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: "Tango-L" <tango-L@mit.edu>
Nothing to do with staccato. It is, first, functional - the rotation (if
any) is far easier, and second, beautiful as movement.
About the real tango - still missing the most important.
---- Original Message -----
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:09:15 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: <tango-L@mit.edu>
It is much more rewarding to derive tango from music, not from pivots.
Old music.
And I did not missed the point.
Igor Polk
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:16:49 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Sorry, but I must be missing something here.
It seems to me that most of tango happens in step 2
(extension). This is when you communicate intention,
direction, and velocity. From here is also where torsion
comes into play. Obviously, you can play with all of the
parts, but I still think that you can do more with
extension than with closing.
I prefer to think of the parts of a step as being:
- extension
- weight transfer
- closing
- pivot
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I say that tango is a dance of collections or pivots
> rather than a walking dance. I say this to change to
> focus of the dance to where the real tango takes
> place.
>
...
> 1. Stand on your left foot with your feet collected.
> 2. Slightly bend your left knee and extend your right
> foot to the side with a straight knee. Keep your body
> aligned over your left foot.
> My point in describing tango movements in this way is
> to shift the focus of the dance from steps to pivots.
> It is coming in and out of the pivot, and being in the
> pivot, where most of tango takes place.
...
> Also, in centering my thinking around this method, it
> is a natural progression to think of tortion,
> mirroring or matching your partner, circular and
> linear boleos, and fake steps, which I like to call
> ?teasing my partner?.
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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