4894 tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:27:05 -0600
From: "Brian Dunn" <brian@danceoftheheart.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango
teachers
Dear List,
As part of preparing the launch of a new organization promoting an effective
professional Code of Ethics for tango professionals, we would very much like
to correspond with individuals whose tango communities suffered the effects
of widely publicized (even if only within the community) inappropriate
sexual behavior on the part of their local tango teachers or other
established members of their "tango family". Please respond offline. All
individual communications will be held in strictest confidence.
We may eventually seek to publish statistical findings resulting from
aggregating the data anonymously (including geographical "untraceability"
below the level of, say, the USA or another country) may be eventually
published. If you have information to share, but don't want the information
to be part of such a study, we would still very much like to hear from you.
Our main goal is to get "real-world" feedback about actual events and
various communities' attempts to heal from this kind of trauma.
Brian Dunn (& Deb Sclar)
Dance of the Heart
775 Pleasant Street
Boulder, CO 80302 USA
303-938-0716
www.danceoftheheart.com <https://www.danceoftheheart.com/>
"Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time"
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:41:21 -0400
From: "Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com)" <spatz@tangoDC.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango
teachers - what a nonsense !
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I'm with Igor on this one, though I don't share his Orwellian vision.
Tango is unofficially bureaucratic enough already, and any man or woman
with personal integrity has no use for such an organization. Any man or
woman _without_ personal integrity, or with ambitions to acquire
meaningless credentials, has fine reason to use it for camouflage.
I presume your intentions are good, but my professionalism doesn't need
your endorsement. And considering the nature of gossip, not to mention
defamation law, I do believe your endeavor is more likely to create,
rather than to remedy, a fucking disaster.
Which appears to be your chief topic of interest.
Jake Spatz
DC
Igor Polk wrote:
> Brian Dunn,
>
> I can see it all. A Mr. Dunn sitting as a head of a "professional
> organization" watching others tango teacher sexual behavior. ( Uniform sits
> so nicely on his broad shoulders! ). Anonymously. And then once a quarter a
> nation-wide publication is going out: "Distribution of suspicient sexual
> behavior cases among the population of tango teachers in the United States
> and the rest of the world counties."
>
> Frankly, it is not a very funny joke Brian ! April 1 have passed, you know..
>
> Igor Polk
> I have read the post several time in disbelieve that a free american can
> propose such nonsense.
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:23:27 -0400
From: Jeff Gaynor <jjg@jqhome.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango
teachers
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Brian Dunn wrote:
>Dear List,
>
>
>
>As part of preparing the launch of a new organization promoting an effective
>professional Code of Ethics for tango professionals, we would very much like
>to correspond with individuals whose tango communities suffered the effects
>of widely publicized (even if only within the community) inappropriate
>sexual behavior on the part of their local tango teachers or other
>established members of their "tango family". Please respond offline. All
>individual communications will be held in strictest confidence.
>
>
>
This is a disaster in the making. One more time, I do martial arts and
have for many years. I've seen efforts within that community to do this
and they have been unmitigated disasters from start to finish.
What professional qualifications do you have that makes you fit to even
begin to compile such a list and investigate? Sorry, but I suspect you
have none which means you as amateurs will make mistakes. First time you
get it less than right (doesn't even have to be wrong) will destroy any
credibility you have. On top of that, lawyers will have a complete field
day with you for slander and libel. If you endorse someone who actually
commits a crime then count on your organization being held accountable too.
Most of these organizations turn into witch hunts, where someone with
and idealogical ax to grind only certifies their like-minded friends.
Moreover, it is too easy for a student who just doesn't understand tango
to make an accusation. What do you do when a woman shows for her first
tango lesson then runs off to her lawyers because you told her to do a
standard embrace on a stranger? You can argue until your hair falls out
that it's part of the dance but that might carry little weight in a
civil case. Certainly there have been cases of inappropriate behavior
but these are best treated as *individual* acts by the involved parties
rather than something the community is plagued with to the point it must
watch its members.
The plus with a national organization (e.g. the AMA) is that it looks
like it can indeed police its own members. What procedures can you
possibly institute short of having national certifications and a
draconion licensing program that will assure anyone that an endorsement
has merit? To be more than a nuisance you will have to try very hard to
take over saying who is and who is not a tango instructor. That might
put you in the weird position that none of the great instructors from
Argentina are technically instructors since you haven't certified them.
Won't that help the dance...
Sorry -- giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are trying to
help the community -- this won't work and the community at large should
resist it.
Jeff G
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:56:15 -0500
From: Martin Waxman <martin@waxman.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango
teachers
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Brian Dunn, we've made a registry, and you're on it.
We will monitor your every move.
Any offense will be reported to the Tango police.
Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:45:11 -0600
From: "David Hodgson" <DHodgson@TangoLabyrinth.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango
teachers
I need to send out my opinions on this email that was just sent out.
Brian and Deb, what has just been sent out is really bloody offensive.
If there are events that happen within a community that you allude to. In
sending an email like I am responding to here. Why you are taking advantage
and throwing gas on fire of a potential knee jerk reaction to prop up some
ideals of a "Code of ethics" (does this really "heal a trauma").
But also you are asking people to become involved by sending you;
"The effects of widely publicized inappropriate sexual behavior on the part
of their local tango teachers or other established members of their "tango
family".
It is also asked for people to send this information to you off line and
that;
"All individual communications will be held in strictest confidence".
Also, what the hell is "geographical "untraceability" below the level of,
say, the USA or another country".
Is this some where under the quickly melting polar ice cap??
And lastly:
"If you have information to share, but don't want the information to be part
of such a study, we would still very much like to hear from you".
Which points to mean "We will still use the information but will change the
names and places because we want to".
I find this and the earlier email sent out about the same "ethics" subject
(on 4/18) remarkable and thoughtful in it's timing.
How dare you take a potential situation, use it primarily for your own gain
and wrapping it in an altruistic "Good of all". I am all for someone making
a living and a buck, but not at the expense of another's situation like you
are alluding to.
I have seen this same type of "Code of ethics" try to be developed in other
communities I have been in with very little success. Because it only gets
more complex and confusing with the intellectual minutia of "This is the way
things are suppose to be".
Brian and Deb, I would really love to hear what your interpretation of this
"Code of ethics" is suppose to be. In the approach and way you have written,
this works great if you are putting together a business, and is necessary.
But how else is this "Code of ethics" to manifest it's self.
If you are looking to publish statistical findings, I would like to find out
if you have a background in statistics. Statistical findings would be great
to clarify where problems might be.
But do not try to sell me on the idea of using these same statistics as a
reason to create a "Code of ethics" that is to be imposed in anyway shape or
form.
If you want "real-world" feed back.
Might I suggest a meditation that has served many well (in thought and the
world we live in). The next time you are driving around in a questionable
neighborhood. Think about this. The door on your car, made out of metal,
rubber, plastic and glass. Can help keep you from being attacked by a
potentially dangerous person, this is a very good thing.
If you think that think this same thin door of your car will keep you safe,
>from Life showing up, and taking you through an experience.
Well, I am sure this will be a private conversation.
I also wonder what your own "Code of ethics" will be in that moment.
I teach Tango, as well as you both do, and this dance is too big for any one
person to know everything. We each have a voice in this dance and something
important to teach, pass on and help others with. Do not think for a moment
I would in an aware way, involve my self in an insulated vision of what you
have presented.
Now that I have said what I wanted to say about this subject.
I want to thank you both for sending word out about Daniel Diaz and Joseph
Paris playing at the Mercury Cafe in Denver tonight.
This is bloody good for any community in a situation you allude to, and
helps heal "A Trauma". Because the music they play really kicks a** and the
community gets to dance and share together.
David Hodgson/ Zorrito
TangoLabyrinth.com
(The Gnostics of Tango, with aplomb of Life through Dance)
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 11:27 AM
To: TANGO-L
Subject: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango teachers
Dear List,
As part of preparing the launch of a new organization promoting an effective
professional Code of Ethics for tango professionals, we would very much like
to correspond with individuals whose tango communities suffered the effects
of widely publicized (even if only within the community) inappropriate
sexual behavior on the part of their local tango teachers or other
established members of their "tango family". Please respond offline. All
individual communications will be held in strictest confidence.
We may eventually seek to publish statistical findings resulting from
aggregating the data anonymously (including geographical "untraceability"
below the level of, say, the USA or another country) may be eventually
published. If you have information to share, but don't want the information
to be part of such a study, we would still very much like to hear from you.
Our main goal is to get "real-world" feedback about actual events and
various communities' attempts to heal from this kind of trauma.
Brian Dunn (& Deb Sclar)
Dance of the Heart
775 Pleasant Street
Boulder, CO 80302 USA
303-938-0716
www.danceoftheheart.com <https://www.danceoftheheart.com/>
"Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:46:13 +0200
From: Anna Zelenina <desdelasnubes@web.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Sex, la
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Sex, lies and tango surveilance
"... taught to spy on them and report their deviations. The family had become in effect an extension
of the Thought Police. It was a device by means of which everyone could be
surrounded night and day by informers who knew him intimately." (George Orwell 1984)
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: brian@danceoftheheart.com
> Gesendet: 20.04.07 19:28:47
> Betreff: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango teachers
>
> Dear List,
>
>
>
> As part of preparing the launch of a new organization promoting an effective
> professional Code of Ethics for tango professionals, we would very much like
> to correspond with individuals whose tango communities suffered the effects
> of widely publicized (even if only within the community) inappropriate
> sexual behavior on the part of their local tango teachers or other
> established members of their "tango family". Please respond offline. All
> individual communications will be held in strictest confidence.
>
>
>
> We may eventually seek to publish statistical findings resulting from
> aggregating the data anonymously (including geographical "untraceability"
> below the level of, say, the USA or another country) may be eventually
> published. If you have information to share, but don't want the information
> to be part of such a study, we would still very much like to hear from you.
> Our main goal is to get "real-world" feedback about actual events and
> various communities' attempts to heal from this kind of trauma.
>
>
>
> Brian Dunn (& Deb Sclar)
>
> Dance of the Heart
>
> 775 Pleasant Street
>
> Boulder, CO 80302 USA
>
> 303-938-0716
>
> www.danceoftheheart.com <https://www.danceoftheheart.com/>
>
> "Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time"
>
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:45 +0100 (BST)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] tangoprofessionals.org: Sex, laws, and tango
teachers
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
Jay wrote:
> it seems to me that the concept of a "community" requires a response
> more definitive than looking the other way ...
Actually the concept of a community /provides/ a response more definitive
than looking the other way etc. If it doesn't, then you do not in fact
have anything that can meaningfully be termed a community.
Having said which, to me Brian's tangoprofessionals.org does not have the
appearence of something motivated primarly by concern for community. A
sure sign being that what it is professes to target is not inapprpriate
behaviour of members of the community generally, but of only an entirely
arbtrary subset - tango workers.
--
Chris
