405  Tangos from the 1950s and 60s

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:26:35 -0800
From: Bugs Bunny <bugsbunny1959@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tangos from the 1950s and 60s

I wish HG Wells had written non-fiction. Then a competent sound-engineer
could be sent back in time w/ some equipment & get really high-fidelity
recordings of the golden age of Tango music. No one would ever have to dance
to the current recordings again, unless they are really hooked on
less-than-high fidelity sound for some reason. I think its really a shame
that the less-then-high & medium/low fidelity recordings of this era do not
do justice to the original sound. If the time machine existed, anyone that
cared to could compare/contrast the original orchestras & the current
recordings for themselves.

Given a choice, I always choose high-fidelity music for dancing, be it
Tango, Cajun/Zydeco, West Coast Swing (encompasses WCS, Hustle, NightClub
2Step & Cha-Cha) & Country-Western (encompasses Swing dances plus Waltz,
Texas 2step, line dancing). I love dancing to as close to the original sound
as possible. It speaks to my soul & is way more
enjoyable/interesting/rewarding, to me.

I've been to Tango dances & practice evenings (not using the word
'practicas' anymore due to its pretentious connotations) where the Golden
age of Tango music was played sparingly, if at all. Everyone there seemed to
be having a really good time, connecting to the music & their partners. I
didn't notice anyone bolting for the door or having smoke coming out their
ears.

I'm not advocating never or always playing any genre of Tango/non-Tango
music. I think a seamless balance works just fine. An evening heavily-tilted
towards the Golden age, to me, is uninspiring & repetitious. I've also run
into problems coaxing my other-dance-venue friends into trying Tango due to
too much less-then-high fidelity music being played. These are people that
already know how to dance & would pick it up pretty quickly.

I'd be curious, if my electronic DJ idea could be made to work somehow, &
dancers were free to choose for themselves, what music to dance to
(beginners included), what channels of music they would be listening to?
There could be instrumental/vocal channels for the Golden age, post-golden
age, modern & so on. There could be non-Tango music channels,
cataclysimic/world-ending Tango music, etc...

I know this is kind of a religious subject for some people & someone's
sacred cow may be getting gored somewhere. I'm mostly interested in the
highest-fidelity, best sounding music available, to reach the broadest
audience & because I love dancing to this music. This is just how I feel,
some share the ideas, some don't.

Cheers,
Rick Anderson
Portland, OR

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:05:45 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tangos from the 1950s and 60s

----- Original Message -----

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 07:21:28 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tangos from the 1950s and 60s

The two CD set from Forever Tango has many classics recorded with great
sound but at a tempo that is a little too fast for most social dancing.
One strategy would be to use professional DJ equipment or digital recording
equipment to slow the tempo without altering the pitch. I am sure there
would be some purist objections to doing this... I would still be
interested in hearing the results. It certainly is much more feasible than
a time machine.

As far as beaming different music to everyone on the dance floor, everyone
could bring their own walkman and headphones to the milonga. Couples that
did not like the DJs music could plug in a pair of headphones to one of
their walkmans and the dance to music of their own choosing... ;-)

With best regards,
Steve (de Tejas)

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 13:54:49 -0800
From: Benjamin Koh <benkoh@STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Sonic reprocessing and electronic DJs (was Re: Tangos from the 1950s
and 60s)

Stephen Brown wrote:

>
> The two CD set from Forever Tango has many classics recorded with great
> sound but at a tempo that is a little too fast for most social dancing.

I would not attribute the "undanceability" of the Forever Tango
soundtrack to tempo as much as to style, which encompasses rhythm, tempo
and a host of other aspects. There is both fast and slow music on the
soundtrack, sometimes within the same song, and it's all undanceable for
the most part. The sound quality cannot be faulted and the music is a
pleasure to listen to, but the "dance quality" is wanting. I would not
dance to most of the pieces on the soundtrack at a milonga. It's great
for the ears, not so great for the feet.

As an aside, the last time I saw Forever Tango live in 1999 they were
even better than the CD recording implies. I got the soundtrack AFTER
seeing them and was in fact disappointed that the recording (made in
1994) wasn't as good as the live band (who had obviously had the
opportunity to improve). Definitely go to see (and hear) them if you
have the chance. Wait a minute, I'm preaching to the choir...

> One strategy would be to use professional DJ equipment or digital recording
> equipment to slow the tempo without altering the pitch. I am sure there
> would be some purist objections to doing this... I would still be
> interested in hearing the results. It certainly is much more feasible than
> a time machine.

From the aesthetic point of view, to process the music in such a way is
to insult the artist who created the music, because it implies that
their work is not only not good enough, but that it has to be improved.
If you don't like the music, then don't listen to it and don't dance to
it. You are always free to choose music from another source. If you can
do better with the music, prove it... by playing it yourself.

Don't insult the artist by re-using his material. It is akin to saying
that Michaelangelo's David is not good enough, but instead of making
your own, better, sculpture, you proceed to chip away at or add to a
copy of the real David until you get something you like. The final
result may or may not be pleasing on the surface, but it embodies an
insult to the original artist.

Anyone can reach great heights by standing on the shoulders of giants.
Pop music's equivalent is Vanilla Ice - he sampled (stole) the beat from
Queen's "Under Pressure" for use in his own song "Ice Ice Baby" which
became a hit - for a while. Unfortunately he ran out of ideas after that
and hardly anyone remembers him now. Queen? They're still idolized as
one of the great rock bands.

This sonic reprocessing which I am against is not the same as noise
removal, which I would liken to the sandblasting of sculptures blackened
by pollution. And even then, like some sculptures, some recordings are
too fragile to survive reprocessing/cleaning - the "cleaned" result
would be less than the "dirty" original.

In the German city of Dresden there are many light-colored buildings
topped by blackened statues. The buildings have been cleaned, but the
statues have not, because they are made of sandstone and would be
reduced to stumps if they were "cleaned" by sandblasting. The result is
a curious juxtaposition of light-colored stone, gold (many of the
decorations were gilded) and soot (air pollution was endemic in the
former East Germany). But the alternative is worse: no statues at all,
or inferior copies.

> As far as beaming different music to everyone on the dance floor, everyone
> could bring their own walkman and headphones to the milonga. Couples that
> did not like the DJs music could plug in a pair of headphones to one of
> their walkmans and the dance to music of their own choosing... ;-)

This is the first (or rather only) sensible alternative to the
"electronic DJ" idea that I have seen on the list. I disagree with this
idea of an electronic DJ, because that effectively removes the social
aspect of AT from the milonga. When everyone is dancing to their own
music, there is no shared experience and thus no atmosphere at a
milonga. While it's true that the focus of each dance is one's partner,
the music and the environment play important roles. When the music is
different for everyone, everyone will be dancing unpredictably since it
will be fast for some and slow for others. This messes up the
environment, making dancing more difficult. The current situation in
many milongas is messy enough as it is. With "choose your own music"
setups, some will be doing milonga, others tango, still others waltz.
Chaos.

Without shared music, the milonga is no different from any other crowd
on a street - everyone is moving to a different rhythm and at very
different speeds. With shared music there is a guideline of sorts - road
rules, as it were. Imagine driving on the road where everyone used their
own rules - some would be driving in the middle of lanes, some would be
going 30 mph in the fastest lane, some 75 mph in the slowest lane, still
others would weave from right to left... and others would stop at
traffic lights that no one else could see. Is it any wonder that this
laissez-faire approach to highway rules has fallen out of favour?

In a practica (practice driving circuit), where people are trying to
improve their dancing and the atmosphere isn't as critical, this
headphones/walkman setup may be a good idea *if there is sufficent
space* since each couple can go off into their own corner and practice
to the music of their choice. But I would argue quite strongly against
"choose your own music" setups at a milonga. If you don't like the music
being played, sit down and/or chat with someone. If you don't like a lot
of the music, go to another milonga.

What if there's no other milonga in town, and you *really* want to
dance? Try organizing something yourself. If your choice of music is
truly better, you'll get the crowds at your milonga. Competition is
always good - if the other milonga wants to stay open, its music
selection will have to improve. Then dancers will have two good milongas
to choose from, instead of the one lousy one they have now.

Benjamin